Grand Theft Models

Discussion started by LemonadeCG

First i will start from theft report.
User https://www.cgtrader.com/jiyu has over 4K models, most of them if not all are stolen. As far as i see there's almost entire evermotion archmodels collection. Render previews are different than originals, but models are definitelly the same. I'll give few examples, mostly car models, as i'm mostly familiar with those.
original: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/other/car-07-am132
stolen: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/standard/vehicle-cars-3931
original: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/sport/car-seat-leon-ii
stolen: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/standard/vehicle-cars-6137
original: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/other/car-11-am132
stolen: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/standard/vehicle-cars-1472
original: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/truck/blue-glob-trans-semi-truck
stolen: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/truck/transportation-truck-91601
original: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/mammal/white-and-brownish-bull-dog
stolen: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/animals/mammal/animals-dogs-08

And many many more, not only from evermotion.

Ideally such user should be banned without questions, but i really doubt that will happens. But i still think that users caught redhanded should be somehow punished. How about lowering reputation (rating) of all their models to minimum so in search such models would appear at the very bottom and fair sellers would gain advantage over thiefs.

Answers

captainmarlowe
Posted 12 months ago
0

He didn't even change the brand on the cars licence plates.
Yep, this would qualify for a ban, I guess you're right.

maroans-vault
Posted 12 months ago
0

WOW - the hubris ... and captain is right, the name is still on the license plates! wth ...

djkorg
Posted 12 months ago
1

This thief must be banned and even erased as soon as possible. Bastards like him bringing 3d marketplace down. He needs also to be banned on the other sites. Lets find him)

maroans-vault
Posted 12 months ago
0

It stands to reason that this person downloaded these models from the other artists. bought them even. But still, none of the licenses on the originals or sanctioned by cgt allow for the models to be resold in the form in which they were purchased. ( in other words, as a stand alone model for sale ) ... So everyone should at least check and see if this person has downloaded any models from them (free or otherwise) and maybe start checking on those people who buy and download your models to make certain they are not doing the same thing. And i think, after seeing that, all should be more cautious. This particular person isnt only stealing the models and reselling them, but also selling them for 1/4 the price, undercutting the original artists.

asanna
Posted 12 months ago
0

Thanks for the advice. Hope that Cgtrader do something!
That's insane...

maroans-vault
Posted 12 months ago
0

From what i can tell they monitor the forum very closely. So there is nearly no chance they won't know.

jackfurneri1984
Posted 12 months ago
0

They should delete her account..it's easy to steal models.. Artists like me and the others really give their heart to produce models.
I really want to know what CGTrader is going to do right now. I hope she will be banned pretty soon!

whereisjoe
Posted 12 months ago
0

I realized copyright is a big problem on this website, people can download free models somewhere else and put a price on it and upload to this site.

djkorg wrote
djkorg
As for free models i think it's not a big problem, because they are free and people can get them if will search more deeper. On the other hand I think complex models must be priced because freeing them also brings market down. The bigger problem in that this dude steal and sell not free models for 1/10 of the author price.
LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
No, they can't. That would be illegal. Just because author is giving away hes models for free, doesn't mean that people can do with these models whatever they want. Even free models comes under one or another licence and vast majority of them doesn't allow to resell models. I see there's so much misconceptions about licencing, cgtrader really should start to educate its members about that.
djkorg wrote
djkorg
Your are fully right - they can't. I just want to compare negative amounts of stealing free and priced products. On my own oppinion stealing priced model is more negative. But I dont mean that is normal to steal free models. Sorry if someone was misleaded....))
LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
@djkorg, sorry, i wasn't replied to you, it's just this retarded forum makes normal conversation near impossible :[
djkorg
Posted 12 months ago
0

As I saw hieroglyphs on his renders, I think this is not a girl. Avatar is fake. Maybe its a group of dudes, because too many models stealed, rerendered and reuploaded in shot time....I think it's very hard to one person.

jackfurneri1984 wrote
jackfurneri1984
yeah you are right. it looks like a bunch of guys stealing models and reselling them. This is a fraud. I hope CGTrader at least deletes that account. it's really prohibited
LemonadeCG
Posted 12 months ago
1

Well, some notice from cgtrader staff wouldn't hurt. I think they should show signs that this case is acknowleged and is under investigation. Silence from them is rather strange and may lead to some shady thoughts.

jackfurneri1984 wrote
jackfurneri1984
They are probably finding a proper solution. I hope so.
eduardas
Posted 12 months ago
5

Hi all,

Thank you for noticing the user and for the voiced concerns.

We've started to inspect jiyu's models since there were about 12K of them, so it took a little while to make a thorough inspection. The user has already been warned before.

Since it didn't work, the user will be banned, as we will not tolerate this kind of behavior. We're having a minor issue at the moment and our product team is working on it - as soon as they're finished, jiyu will be removed from CGTrader community.

Thank you,
Eddie, CGTrader

macabrecrap wrote
macabrecrap
It's pretty nice how CGTrader actually seems to give a damn about us artists. Also, thumbs up to the person who spotted the account's activity.
maroans-vault
Posted 12 months ago
1

Told ya they were watching ;)

miaomiao3d
Posted 12 months ago
0

I can bet you the originals were being given out for free or being sold at really discounted prices at some point. That is how these people do business. They keep a really close eye on sales or the free section of the site. then they make tiny mods and re upload it on their site and usually sell it better than the original by providing more pictures wireframe and details. I noticed the original modeler is lacking in proper presentation of his her models whilst the thief is really good at it.

miaomiao3d
Posted 12 months ago
0

Banning the user is really not the way to stop this from happening. CGT should make the thief return all earnings made to the original artist.

I keep talking about revenue sharing because with it, this kind of problem would disappear.

You see as bad and annoying as this thief is they have much needed skills that if put to use in a constructive way could benefit us all.

If instead of stealing others models and selling them they could earn money from selling those models legally then they would loose interest in doing (bad things and illegal things) because they could still make money legally.

By working together the original seller actually would make much more in percentage without having to worry about making good renders, wire frames or providing proper info about their models.

Really good modelers should just be concerned with creating beautifully crafted models, just like sales people should be in charge of selling. This thief is your typical used cars salesman who found a way to cheat the system. I bet he or she sold a boat load of models!

All that money should go back to the original artist!

jackfurneri1984 wrote
jackfurneri1984
I think Marvimation is right. I'm sure CgTrader has the report and their Database keeps all the transactions that have been made thus far. They should sue him/her and they should return everything. Then it could be a plus to delete his/her profile...
jackfurneri1984
Posted 12 months ago
0

Anyway I'm wondering why every single model that profile posted contains a blurred signature at the very bottom...

miaomiao3d
Posted 12 months ago
0

Not sure but it is possible that who stole the models signed each one to make people believe the model belongs to them. See very crafty. That may be how CGT did not notice what they did.

I think CGT should add a clause to the contract for everyone who joins or opens an account with them.

The clause should state that if you are caught steeling and re selling models you have to return all money earned to CGT who then will give it back to original artists and you have to work for CGT for free for at least 4 years selling other peoples models legally and giving them all earnings.

djkorg wrote
djkorg
Moneyback its good, but impossible due to globalistic model of relationship. How can you get moneyback from this dude which soon of all located in China or somewhere near of.
maroans-vault
Posted 12 months ago
1

I doubt CgT has the personnel to go through every single one of 4,000 plus models and see what went where. The time it would take to do is probably just stupendous. Unfortunately when people break rules, the damage is sometimes just done and all you can do is go from there. (in this case, ban the person and keep a watchful eye that they dont return under another name). But the idea of helping one another out in a sense of helping to render or creating good details etc etc for a profit share is actually cool and i like it. It would be awesome if a system could be put into place for that. The only snag is that you have to be sure you can trust those people doing those renderings and stuff for you. Because you'd have to hand over your work to another artist.

miaomiao3d wrote
miaomiao3d
djkorg you are right in a way only companies with top lawyers can crack down on over seas crooks. Disney is well known for doing that but CGT has limited financial resources to do something that intensive especially considering how many people are steeling, modding and reselling. That's why the best war strategy masters never try to wipe out the enemy. If you try to wipe out an enemy, (close out their account and ban them as an analogy) there is no way of truly knowing if you were able to. If any of your enemies survive they will re group in secret and come back stronger, smarter and when you least expect it. That is why war experts find ways of negotiating with enemies and making their relationship work in an advantageous way for them. When you negotiate being the stronger power the cards are in your favor and you can get a better deal. The police and special forces do this really well with hackers. They catch them and turn them into assets. In prison they do no good at all but under supervision they can use their skills to hunt down other criminals or improve cyber security. We have to find a way to get these crooks to work for us. We will make more money and they will have less reasons to steal. Also my idea of revenue sharing is not a costly one that could be implemented pretty quickly. You just need a couple of good coders which CGT already has available.
frabuondi wrote
frabuondi
Well, if cgtrader puts up a collaborative system where you share your work by marking it as a collaborative effort PRIOR to uploading to your "partner", then there would be no way to steal it. As far as I'm concerned, I'd LOVE to save time on renderings and presentation and all of the time required to do a good description... Which means I like your idea and I'd gladly share part of my revenues with whoever gives me that kind of service
djkorg
Posted 12 months ago
0

I think its no need to check all 4K models....over 2 stolen models - ban. There no difference between 2 and 2K. 1 model may be some even mistake, 2 - system error.

miaomiao3d
Posted 12 months ago
0

We know that that account is corrupt and the user is stealing. It is better to let them keep it open and then we can monitor it closely. If you shut it down they will open it again under a different name or get a friend to open it for them. There are so many ways of tricking the system.

It is much better to let the continue to believe they are ok but for instance if their account stays open they make more sales CGT can send the money to the original artists. See keeping them active works to our advantage.
It is better to know where your enemy is at all times because when you know where they are and what they are doing they are innocuous.

It is when you loose track of your enemy that they become a liability. Then you never know where he is going to emerge and hit you again.

hend-z
Posted 12 months ago
0

This is unfair, this account should be banned, and the IP address banned too.

jackfurneri1984 wrote
jackfurneri1984
You are right Hend Z.. We are a serious community and we don't want bad people here.
peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

I have sent cg trader a mail around 3 weeks ago and getting some answered,s the final was this ...mail
from the ceo Marius but i think really delete this guy directly without payments.
Hi Peter,

You are right, we already delete big part of his models, and working on other, don't worry - eventually we will delete the whole account, just give us some time, we are working on a few other things right now.

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

Hi Marius the ghost is out of the bottle ...or the box from Pandora ...https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/topics/grand-theft-models
i think you don't mean what you say..... otherwise you have to control you employees or you only want to make money on a bad way ???
delete this guy right now i will inform Evermotion in 2x24 hours from now. i am disappointed how the company is acting at the moment.
greetings Peter
now i will mail this guy a link to this topic maybe hi will delete his stuf by himself

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

hm i just not reed the topic totally but i think Cg trader is working hard at the moment to get him out of the system .....
but its hard i just making a few new scrubs it cost me day to make this ... its hard to see people just steel it from someone who has work hard for his models.
Greetings Peter

LemonadeCG
Posted 12 months ago
0

Umm, something must not be right with the way cgtrader database is built if it tooks several weeks to remove one's account from system.

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

yep i think they have to find out a better way to do this
greetings Peter

LemonadeCG
Posted 12 months ago
0

BTW, i wonder what happens to buyers which bought models from this fraudulent seller. Those models must be considered as illegally obtained and those cannot be used. Would cgtrader refund money should buyers request so?

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

i really don't know....but it most be some where in there terms of use how they handle this
greetings Peter

miaomiao3d
Posted 12 months ago
0

Yes CGT are really good about refunding money if anything goes wrong. They have an excellent customer service!

LemonadeCG
Posted 12 months ago
0

They are quick to refund when there's active seller from which account it's possible to deduct money, yes. But how it would be in case like this, when there isn't seller out there anymore and they would have to take money out of their own pockets? I'm not accusing anyone, just curious.

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

I really don,t know but as i can see this is not good for the reputation of trust from cg trader,
this hole matter.
in mine country we say...... trust is going by a horse and is coming back by feet........ so i think its wan of the most important thing,s for a site like this and nobody is totally innocent... but there are limits i think-:)
greetings Peter

peter112
Posted 12 months ago
0

Last thing i will say about it if there is money left from this guys account sent it to some charity so problem solved
and cg trader can do something good for the world -:)
gr Peter

eduardas
Posted 12 months ago
2

Hello guys,

Again, thank you for all the concern. We're unhappy about dragging this issue for so long as well - we have no intention of tolerating this kind of behavior in our community.

The developing bug is solved and Jiyu account is now banned.

Eddie,
CGTrader

miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
1

Oh dear this one is way too obvious! What was that Roco thinking? But I bet you it is just another one of those people who got banned and so easily made a new account. We should not ban them we need to make them work for us.

If people want to sell models and they don't own any let's allow them to do it but they need to give us at least 70 percent of earnings. I mean that's fair. I would take that deal any day.

I would get 40 of these people who keep stealing models and say ok kids, sell my models but every time you make a sale CGT makes it so that 70 percent goes in my paypal or bank and 30 goes to them.

Then everybody wins. I mean who does not want more sales? Put these people to work! They want to work so make them work legally!

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
With all due respect, could you stop with that nonsense already? What you are proposing is ridiculous, illegal and complete utter bullshit at the same time. I don't know in what fantasy world you are living, but down here on earth usually there are laws and common sense and we have to live and act according to them. Law sais, you cannot make illegal act or force another person to do that and common sense sais, you cannot expect that thief will be willingly working for you. So please please, stop posting same bullshit all over again in the forum.
miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
0

I know you do not agree with my thinking here but Solar power companies are doing something similar.

They are diverting people's money so that customers can get solar panels on their roof and pay them instead of the electric company. How does it work? They put solar panels up on customers roof for the same amount of money that people usually pay their utility bill to their usual electric company.

Now that we know this Roca person has stolen a model why not ask CGT to make it so that any money he earned or earns in future goes directly to Evermotion?

I do not see why that is a bad idea? If you delete Roca's account he/she will just open another account and try again but if you let them believe that they are not caught they will continue uploading stolen models and selling but at least the money will go to Evermotion who deserves to make that money.

I mean otherwise in a perfect world you would send cops to his/her door and put in jail. I mean stealing artwork is a crime that should be punished properly.

Maybe you have a better idea if so I would be happy to hear your opinion.

eduardas
Posted 11 months ago
1

Marvimation,

I'm sorry, but I have to fully agree with limonadinis here. The idea of re-selling stolen models (or anything for that matter) is never, ever a good idea in whichever possible case.

miaomiao3d wrote
miaomiao3d
Yes I also agree with you and Limonadinis 200 percent that stealing and re selling is wrong and should be stopped at all cost. The problem is that CGT is not able to do so. Just look at how many users keep popping up. Limonadinis has been amazing at tracking those people down! He is a true warrior and asset to CGT! If CGT takes over the stolen account and makes the money go to who it belongs to they are doing what the police does all the time. When they hunt down a criminal and make them return the money to the rightful owner. The way things are done right now, the criminal always wins. If they are not caught they get to keep all the money. You ban their account, they come back and do it all over again. The way things are the criminal gets away but at least if you step in like the police and use their account against them you get justice for those who got their models stolen.
maroans-vault
Posted 11 months ago
1

I am curious though, why it would take such time to eliminate thieves once caught. Social media sites, mmo's and other internet based things that have tons of membership manage to knock people down in less than a minute if they misbehave. It seems to me that CgT needs some kind of a "instant kill" switch to push too :P

miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
0

That's right maroans! The reason for it is that site like facebook for example keeps a log of IP addresses and possibly get more data from users determining how users use their computers. They establish some sort of user type pattern based on when they log on each day and how they use facebook.

When a user does something stupid or is kicked out that information stays with facebook so if their IP or user pattern shows up again under a new IP or user name they get auto caught and banned again.

I think CGT only deletes the account and does not keep a record of the User IP, Country of connection and other patterns like that so then the user can make a new account in no time and start all over again.

Maybe Eduardas can shed more light on this.

eduardas
Posted 11 months ago
2

Hey guys,

I can agree we still need more work on detecting, banning and keeping the frauds out of the community. We still have lots of room to improve that, and we definitely will - nobody is thinking about keeping the frauds around. Yet, I could maybe conclude it's a matter of completely optimized case - we would like to implement the security updates in a way that would help us minimize the cases like that to complete minimum. This, however, may still need some time I'm afraid. At the moment we're focusing on improving the security against the fraudulent purchases, I guess after that we will go after the copycats.

I'll keep you updated with the product updates regarding security issues.

Don't forget that hearing your concerns is always helpful for us, since we can see things from community's point of view more clearly - so, thank you for bringing things like that up!

hend-z
Posted 11 months ago
2

Maybe you guys, could try to introduce scripts that compare images, descriptions, the model details (like number of polygons) stuff like that and if the script find too much similarities between two products, it notify you and you can check the two products.

This is maybe pure science-fiction because my scripting knowledge is very limited, but if you can, I think it can reduce the stealing .

Also why give only 70% to the real owner, I say CGT should give 100% of revenue of stolen models to the real owner, if they know that they are not getting anything from it, maybe they will drop it.
If you give 30% or even 10% to thieves , this will encourage more people to do it, like, 5 minutes of work will get you some $$, why waste days making a proper model.

LemonadeCG
Posted 11 months ago
2

@Hend Z, CGT will not going to play percentage game between authors and thiefs, that's for sure. If thief will got banned and there's some unpaid moneys in their account, CGT most likely will keep those moneys for themselfs. And no, giving those moneys to author wouldn't be fair or justice. In fact money should be returned to buyer, because he's biggest looser in this situation. He paid for a model, which he cannot to use legally, because it was obtained illegaly.

miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
1

Yes I agree with you guys for stolen content all money needs to be given back to the rightful owners!

Supercigale
Posted 11 months ago
1

I think CGTrader must implement a system like that of TS. ie a button on each product to report a copyright infringement associated with a form, displaying the link to the real owner.
this system is powered by the TS members.
This system works very fine on TS is why thieves are now moving on CGTrader.

LemonadeCG
Posted 11 months ago
1

@Supercigale, actually there is report button in each product page on CGT. Right bellow model details.

miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
0

You are right Supercigale but that also requires lots of people to keep checking the site for copycats. If instead CGT was able to adopt an automated system that could at least narrow down the list of illegal copies in the system everyone's job would be much easier.

I remember reading a post about someone trying to design a software that you can download and that checks your model does not get changed by others. I think maybe some of the functions from that software could be integrated into the site.

The biggest downfall to that software is that artists need to download, install it and then remember to run their models through it every time. Most people don't want to do all that but if some of those cool functions are running on the site and check auto check data then people will be happy with the results.

Again it really depends on how easy it is to code that stuff into the software. It may be difficult.

Supercigale
Posted 11 months ago
1

@limonadinis

you're absolutely right, I've never seen that button .. I am completely confused because I sent an email to Eduardas explaining the operation of a function that already exists ... :) :)

LemonadeCG
Posted 11 months ago
2

@Supercigale, this is my favorite button on CGT :]]] It has one flaw though - you can't use it more than two or three times per day(?) as it automatically pops out message suggesting to report products via e-mail instead. That is unnecessary restriction IMHO.

miaomiao3d
Posted 11 months ago
1

And one should add that Limonadinis really knows the ins and outs of the CGT site as well as artists and their portfolios. I mean it is truly incredible how he can catch all these people! I think CGT should give him some extra credits for spotting all these copycats and making CGT a better place :)

maroans-vault
Posted 11 months ago
1

Well, as they say, ladies and gents, Rome wasn't built in a day. :)

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