He didn't even change the brand on the cars licence plates.
Yep, this would qualify for a ban, I guess you're right.
First i will start from theft report.
User https://www.cgtrader.com/jiyu has over 4K models, most of them if not all are stolen. As far as i see there's almost entire evermotion archmodels collection. Render previews are different than originals, but models are definitelly the same. I'll give few examples, mostly car models, as i'm mostly familiar with those.
And many many more, not only from evermotion.
Ideally such user should be banned without questions, but i really doubt that will happens. But i still think that users caught redhanded should be somehow punished. How about lowering reputation (rating) of all their models to minimum so in search such models would appear at the very bottom and fair sellers would gain advantage over thiefs.
He didn't even change the brand on the cars licence plates.
Yep, this would qualify for a ban, I guess you're right.
WOW - the hubris ... and captain is right, the name is still on the license plates! wth ...
This thief must be banned and even erased as soon as possible. Bastards like him bringing 3d marketplace down. He needs also to be banned on the other sites. Lets find him)
It stands to reason that this person downloaded these models from the other artists. bought them even. But still, none of the licenses on the originals or sanctioned by cgt allow for the models to be resold in the form in which they were purchased. ( in other words, as a stand alone model for sale ) ... So everyone should at least check and see if this person has downloaded any models from them (free or otherwise) and maybe start checking on those people who buy and download your models to make certain they are not doing the same thing. And i think, after seeing that, all should be more cautious. This particular person isnt only stealing the models and reselling them, but also selling them for 1/4 the price, undercutting the original artists.
Thanks for the advice. Hope that Cgtrader do something!
From what i can tell they monitor the forum very closely. So there is nearly no chance they won't know.
They should delete her account..it's easy to steal models.. Artists like me and the others really give their heart to produce models.
I really want to know what CGTrader is going to do right now. I hope she will be banned pretty soon!
I realized copyright is a big problem on this website, people can download free models somewhere else and put a price on it and upload to this site.
As I saw hieroglyphs on his renders, I think this is not a girl. Avatar is fake. Maybe its a group of dudes, because too many models stealed, rerendered and reuploaded in shot time....I think it's very hard to one person.
Well, some notice from cgtrader staff wouldn't hurt. I think they should show signs that this case is acknowleged and is under investigation. Silence from them is rather strange and may lead to some shady thoughts.
Thank you for noticing the user and for the voiced concerns.
We've started to inspect jiyu's models since there were about 12K of them, so it took a little while to make a thorough inspection. The user has already been warned before.
Since it didn't work, the user will be banned, as we will not tolerate this kind of behavior. We're having a minor issue at the moment and our product team is working on it - as soon as they're finished, jiyu will be removed from CGTrader community.
Told ya they were watching ;)
... and it is good
I can bet you the originals were being given out for free or being sold at really discounted prices at some point. That is how these people do business. They keep a really close eye on sales or the free section of the site. then they make tiny mods and re upload it on their site and usually sell it better than the original by providing more pictures wireframe and details. I noticed the original modeler is lacking in proper presentation of his her models whilst the thief is really good at it.
Banning the user is really not the way to stop this from happening. CGT should make the thief return all earnings made to the original artist.
I keep talking about revenue sharing because with it, this kind of problem would disappear.
You see as bad and annoying as this thief is they have much needed skills that if put to use in a constructive way could benefit us all.
If instead of stealing others models and selling them they could earn money from selling those models legally then they would loose interest in doing (bad things and illegal things) because they could still make money legally.
By working together the original seller actually would make much more in percentage without having to worry about making good renders, wire frames or providing proper info about their models.
Really good modelers should just be concerned with creating beautifully crafted models, just like sales people should be in charge of selling. This thief is your typical used cars salesman who found a way to cheat the system. I bet he or she sold a boat load of models!
All that money should go back to the original artist!
Anyway I'm wondering why every single model that profile posted contains a blurred signature at the very bottom...
Not sure but it is possible that who stole the models signed each one to make people believe the model belongs to them. See very crafty. That may be how CGT did not notice what they did.
I think CGT should add a clause to the contract for everyone who joins or opens an account with them.
The clause should state that if you are caught steeling and re selling models you have to return all money earned to CGT who then will give it back to original artists and you have to work for CGT for free for at least 4 years selling other peoples models legally and giving them all earnings.
I doubt CgT has the personnel to go through every single one of 4,000 plus models and see what went where. The time it would take to do is probably just stupendous. Unfortunately when people break rules, the damage is sometimes just done and all you can do is go from there. (in this case, ban the person and keep a watchful eye that they dont return under another name). But the idea of helping one another out in a sense of helping to render or creating good details etc etc for a profit share is actually cool and i like it. It would be awesome if a system could be put into place for that. The only snag is that you have to be sure you can trust those people doing those renderings and stuff for you. Because you'd have to hand over your work to another artist.
I think its no need to check all 4K models....over 2 stolen models - ban. There no difference between 2 and 2K. 1 model may be some even mistake, 2 - system error.
We know that that account is corrupt and the user is stealing. It is better to let them keep it open and then we can monitor it closely. If you shut it down they will open it again under a different name or get a friend to open it for them. There are so many ways of tricking the system.
It is much better to let the continue to believe they are ok but for instance if their account stays open they make more sales CGT can send the money to the original artists. See keeping them active works to our advantage.
It is better to know where your enemy is at all times because when you know where they are and what they are doing they are innocuous.
It is when you loose track of your enemy that they become a liability. Then you never know where he is going to emerge and hit you again.
This is unfair, this account should be banned, and the IP address banned too.
I have sent cg trader a mail around 3 weeks ago and getting some answered,s the final was this ...mail
from the ceo Marius but i think really delete this guy directly without payments.
You are right, we already delete big part of his models, and working on other, don't worry - eventually we will delete the whole account, just give us some time, we are working on a few other things right now.
Hi Marius the ghost is out of the bottle ...or the box from Pandora ...https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/topics/grand-theft-models
i think you don't mean what you say..... otherwise you have to control you employees or you only want to make money on a bad way ???
delete this guy right now i will inform Evermotion in 2x24 hours from now. i am disappointed how the company is acting at the moment.
now i will mail this guy a link to this topic maybe hi will delete his stuf by himself
hm i just not reed the topic totally but i think Cg trader is working hard at the moment to get him out of the system .....
but its hard i just making a few new scrubs it cost me day to make this ... its hard to see people just steel it from someone who has work hard for his models.
Umm, something must not be right with the way cgtrader database is built if it tooks several weeks to remove one's account from system.
yep i think they have to find out a better way to do this
BTW, i wonder what happens to buyers which bought models from this fraudulent seller. Those models must be considered as illegally obtained and those cannot be used. Would cgtrader refund money should buyers request so?
Yes CGT are really good about refunding money if anything goes wrong. They have an excellent customer service!
They are quick to refund when there's active seller from which account it's possible to deduct money, yes. But how it would be in case like this, when there isn't seller out there anymore and they would have to take money out of their own pockets? I'm not accusing anyone, just curious.
I really don,t know but as i can see this is not good for the reputation of trust from cg trader,
this hole matter.
in mine country we say...... trust is going by a horse and is coming back by feet........ so i think its wan of the most important thing,s for a site like this and nobody is totally innocent... but there are limits i think-:)
Last thing i will say about it if there is money left from this guys account sent it to some charity so problem solved
and cg trader can do something good for the world -:)
Again, thank you for all the concern. We're unhappy about dragging this issue for so long as well - we have no intention of tolerating this kind of behavior in our community.
The developing bug is solved and Jiyu account is now banned.
Add custom licence plate and ask $30 bonus. Nice move. Oh, did i forgot to mention, that you have to steal model first?
Oh dear this one is way too obvious! What was that Roco thinking? But I bet you it is just another one of those people who got banned and so easily made a new account. We should not ban them we need to make them work for us.
If people want to sell models and they don't own any let's allow them to do it but they need to give us at least 70 percent of earnings. I mean that's fair. I would take that deal any day.
I would get 40 of these people who keep stealing models and say ok kids, sell my models but every time you make a sale CGT makes it so that 70 percent goes in my paypal or bank and 30 goes to them.
Then everybody wins. I mean who does not want more sales? Put these people to work! They want to work so make them work legally!
I know you do not agree with my thinking here but Solar power companies are doing something similar.
They are diverting people's money so that customers can get solar panels on their roof and pay them instead of the electric company. How does it work? They put solar panels up on customers roof for the same amount of money that people usually pay their utility bill to their usual electric company.
Now that we know this Roca person has stolen a model why not ask CGT to make it so that any money he earned or earns in future goes directly to Evermotion?
I do not see why that is a bad idea? If you delete Roca's account he/she will just open another account and try again but if you let them believe that they are not caught they will continue uploading stolen models and selling but at least the money will go to Evermotion who deserves to make that money.
I mean otherwise in a perfect world you would send cops to his/her door and put in jail. I mean stealing artwork is a crime that should be punished properly.
Maybe you have a better idea if so I would be happy to hear your opinion.
I'm sorry, but I have to fully agree with limonadinis here. The idea of re-selling stolen models (or anything for that matter) is never, ever a good idea in whichever possible case.
I am curious though, why it would take such time to eliminate thieves once caught. Social media sites, mmo's and other internet based things that have tons of membership manage to knock people down in less than a minute if they misbehave. It seems to me that CgT needs some kind of a "instant kill" switch to push too :P
That's right maroans! The reason for it is that site like facebook for example keeps a log of IP addresses and possibly get more data from users determining how users use their computers. They establish some sort of user type pattern based on when they log on each day and how they use facebook.
When a user does something stupid or is kicked out that information stays with facebook so if their IP or user pattern shows up again under a new IP or user name they get auto caught and banned again.
I think CGT only deletes the account and does not keep a record of the User IP, Country of connection and other patterns like that so then the user can make a new account in no time and start all over again.
Maybe Eduardas can shed more light on this.
I can agree we still need more work on detecting, banning and keeping the frauds out of the community. We still have lots of room to improve that, and we definitely will - nobody is thinking about keeping the frauds around. Yet, I could maybe conclude it's a matter of completely optimized case - we would like to implement the security updates in a way that would help us minimize the cases like that to complete minimum. This, however, may still need some time I'm afraid. At the moment we're focusing on improving the security against the fraudulent purchases, I guess after that we will go after the copycats.
I'll keep you updated with the product updates regarding security issues.
Don't forget that hearing your concerns is always helpful for us, since we can see things from community's point of view more clearly - so, thank you for bringing things like that up!
Maybe you guys, could try to introduce scripts that compare images, descriptions, the model details (like number of polygons) stuff like that and if the script find too much similarities between two products, it notify you and you can check the two products.
This is maybe pure science-fiction because my scripting knowledge is very limited, but if you can, I think it can reduce the stealing .
Also why give only 70% to the real owner, I say CGT should give 100% of revenue of stolen models to the real owner, if they know that they are not getting anything from it, maybe they will drop it.
If you give 30% or even 10% to thieves , this will encourage more people to do it, like, 5 minutes of work will get you some $$, why waste days making a proper model.
@Hend Z, CGT will not going to play percentage game between authors and thiefs, that's for sure. If thief will got banned and there's some unpaid moneys in their account, CGT most likely will keep those moneys for themselfs. And no, giving those moneys to author wouldn't be fair or justice. In fact money should be returned to buyer, because he's biggest looser in this situation. He paid for a model, which he cannot to use legally, because it was obtained illegaly.
Yes I agree with you guys for stolen content all money needs to be given back to the rightful owners!
I think CGTrader must implement a system like that of TS. ie a button on each product to report a copyright infringement associated with a form, displaying the link to the real owner.
this system is powered by the TS members.
This system works very fine on TS is why thieves are now moving on CGTrader.
@Supercigale, actually there is report button in each product page on CGT. Right bellow model details.
You are right Supercigale but that also requires lots of people to keep checking the site for copycats. If instead CGT was able to adopt an automated system that could at least narrow down the list of illegal copies in the system everyone's job would be much easier.
I remember reading a post about someone trying to design a software that you can download and that checks your model does not get changed by others. I think maybe some of the functions from that software could be integrated into the site.
The biggest downfall to that software is that artists need to download, install it and then remember to run their models through it every time. Most people don't want to do all that but if some of those cool functions are running on the site and check auto check data then people will be happy with the results.
Again it really depends on how easy it is to code that stuff into the software. It may be difficult.
you're absolutely right, I've never seen that button .. I am completely confused because I sent an email to Eduardas explaining the operation of a function that already exists ... :) :)
@Supercigale, this is my favorite button on CGT :]]] It has one flaw though - you can't use it more than two or three times per day(?) as it automatically pops out message suggesting to report products via e-mail instead. That is unnecessary restriction IMHO.
And one should add that Limonadinis really knows the ins and outs of the CGT site as well as artists and their portfolios. I mean it is truly incredible how he can catch all these people! I think CGT should give him some extra credits for spotting all these copycats and making CGT a better place :)
Well, as they say, ladies and gents, Rome wasn't built in a day. :)
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