Drop in sales due to algorithm change?

Discussion started by CGPitbull

I have read in another forum that in April CGTrader has changed to a new AI algorithm, and that several people have already noticed a drop in sales since this date (I include myself in this group), have more people noticed this? and what sense does it have? if it is showing that there is a general drop in sales... in exchange for what is this platform interested in this algorithm change?... that's without counting the people who spamm by publishing dozens of models of dubious quality on a daily basis... . I do not get it.

Answers

Posted 11 months ago
-1

Yes mate, that's how we are, I've spent 4 years setting up my store, trying to learn the algorithm and understand the plataform, and I finally got to earn good money every month, but since April sales have plummeted and now the 2 weakest months to sell are coming ... This was going to be my year, but it looks like it won't be.

CGPitbull wrote
CGPitbull
If they did indeed change the algorithm and it translates into fewer views, sales for publishers, they would have to warn us, to find out if it is legitimate to continue investing time on this platform...
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
I only know what I have read here and in some forum, as you say I have not read anything official about it either. Also, I don't speak English natively, so it's hard for me to understand some things even using a translator. For me there is no other option than to continue working and uploading models since up to now this is the only platform that has really brought me real benefits and has solved the problems that have arisen. In any case, if something has really changed and if it has affected a considerable number of people, they will probably fix it, if not, I will have to get used to it and understand how the platform works now.
Posted 11 months ago
-1

I would not have commented anything if the comments I read in this other forum had not coincided with the April date with the drop in sales in general, that confirms this algorithm change, but I do not quite understand how it benefits them, and if it does not benefit them because they are still determined to maintain it... a mystery lol

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
If the sales drop is indeed because of search algorithm change, then it's most likely that not all sellers are affected equally by the change. Some are seeing decrease, some are seeing increase. It's a zero sum game - someone has to lose in order for the other person to win. Search algorithm don't influence overall demand, it just affect distribution of sales. That means someone else is getting your sales now. Cgtrader is getting their usual cut, for them nothing much has changed, so i wouldn't expect that they will do something about that.
RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
someone has to lose in order for the other person to win. WOW!
RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
Cgtrader is getting their usual cut, for them nothing much has changed. WOW! Great for "Cgtrader"! I and probably THOUSANDS of vendors are amazed!
Posted 11 months ago
2

No change in the rate of sales for my models. In fact, there is a slight increase in my sales for this month, over the last two months.

Forester wrote
Forester
Also, the same exact slight increase in sales of my models on two other brokering sites (Renderosity and another - low grade stuff for hobbyists that I would never consider trying to make for the professionals here). I think ordinary market fluctuations are responsible for the slump in sales in April and May, and the overall increase in June.) At least, this seems true for my type of models.
Forester wrote
Forester
Don't know if you guys follow the economic news or not, but it is worth your time and attention. In general. consumer spending slumped in March, April and May, more or less world-wide, and just now starting to increase a bit. A rash of recent, intersecting crises—supply-chain snarls, the war in Ukraine, elevated gas prices, bird flu—did scramble consumer spending, leading companies to raise prices over the past few years. This appears to have led to overall price increases for all basic goods ("inflation"), and so it is understandable that discretionary spending has slowed down this entire year so far. So, people appear to be spending more on cheaper models,less on complex, expensive models. Hobbyist type models that are purchased by retirees seem to be the first to be slowly recovering in sales amount.
CGPitbull wrote
CGPitbull
It depends on the average sales you usually have, looking at your "reputation 7967" and mine "reputation 227890" you can get an idea of the difference in sales we have, there are people here who have 30 models and earn about $20 a month and they consider this data "good sales", I base myself on at least 5 recognized artists (who I am not going to mention) who have their models here and tell me the same thing as me... for a reason, not just because of the " season" in fact if I compare the same season last year and this one and I did not have this drop in sales last year.
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
But where are we Forester? You say that you have not noticed any decrease in sales, even a slight increase, then why the war, inflation and all that you mention (and you are right about it) why does all this not affect you?
3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
Not sure if you noticed @TheGoodBrick but @jaguarbeastproduction doesnt sell models.
jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
3DCargo any problems? Jaguar, who has already caught more than 140 thieves in this month (thereby free in search hundreds places for YOUR models) is not allowed to write comments?
Forester wrote
Forester
Agree, are we not all welcome to comment or raise reasonable questions here? ...But, perhaps neither CGPitbull nor 3DCargo meant that a person needs some kind of "standing" to participate knowledgeably in this discussion. As for me, I stand by my point that across all the brokering sites I use (for the many diverse kinds of models I make), I'm seeing a slight increase in sales that is a relatively uniform amount of increase. But, of course, you can take that observation or leave it. Also, if it is true that CGTrader made a small alteration in their search and advertising algorithm to reduce bias in favor of high volume sellers, I'm all for that. Since I also purchase assets here for commissioned renders and tutorials that I write, I really appreciate a more precise and productive search algorithm.
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
For me, anyone who knows CGT is welcome, and who is not too, but they will have little to contribute to the discussion. In any case, I'm in the group that in theory should benefit from this change, so I'll have the right to try to understand why my profile doesn't get these benefits and try to fix it, right? At least I think so.
3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
No problem on my side @jaguarbeastproduction, keep up the good work :)
Posted 11 months ago
0

It's funny how some people think that CGT (or someone else) need to offer explanation why their sales are low or non existent, condemning the algorithm change. In my opinion CGT search was always "promoting" models of those artist who have high number of rep points when it comes to the most selling categories, no matter does their model/s justify customer search query. Just to be clear the number of uploaded models were decisive in order to get sales (rep points), as its mentioned here on this forum for milion times. I think that search is more fair/precise now, wich will save buyers time in order to find exactly what suit their needs and at the same time encourage small artists to be more productive wich will create even a bigger offer here on cgt.

TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
Tell me how a small artist can increase his productivity in such a way that he can submit thousands of objects every week? Because it would be the only way to be able to compete with the great artists... If it were a question of reputation, people like the fellow who created the thread would not have this problem, you see, he has more than 200,000 reputation points, maximum level (Legend) and has more than 400 models... what else must CGPitbull do to be able to claim? Maybe I'm a mediocre and unproductive artist, but how do you expect me to be motivated to be better if other, much better artists don't make any money either? Because according to what you say, if now I go crazy working and next year I upload 5000 models, will my problems end? And if you neither buy nor sell on this platform, what opinion do you think you can give about this?
tobiasrieper wrote
You don't get it do you ? What cgt did by changing search system is mitigate monoply that big rep sellers have, thats the reason the "fellow" created this topic.
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
Ok, I understand, but I still don't see it clearly, CGPitbull has 200k rep, I just reached 20k rep. So according to the new system, CGPitbull loses sales and creators like me should win them right? but it is not like that, apparently many are losing sales, whether they have a good reputation or not. And in any case, what is the use of raising your reputation if when you reach the highest you are going to lose visibility? As I have already said something I must not be understanding, so I will continue as before.
LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
Drastic changes to search algorithm affect peoples lives, i think it's only fair to expect at least some explanation. It's naive to think that cgtrader does not owe anything to the sellers - they owe us their existence.
tobiasrieper wrote
@LemonadeCG I agree with you 100% but my starting point in regards to this is lack of evidence (maybe i'm missing something i don't know) that search engine is 100% to blame. I asked multiple sellers here, all different, some major some small just to get the picture of the current state, so i got multiple different answers, some have increase in sales drastically, for some sales drop drastically, for some everything is the same, All I know is that CGT announced changes in search system and that's it, does it work, how it work, is unknown and that no one at the moment can claim 100% that changes to a search engine are causing lack of sales, so in regards to this cgt don't have to explain anything to anyone. One thing that keep showing in this (at least through my "research") is that big rep sellers don't get the same "attention" by search engine. For example before changes, if you go to car section and in search enter "low poly porsche car" first 10 models would be squir3d, fisherman 3d, hum3d. If you search the same now you get much more precise results, which for me as a buyer is good because i hate to waste time scrolling through pages in order to get to the stuff that i need.
Forester wrote
Forester
So, GoodBrick, who are the "great artists?" Just curious.
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
In all of CGT there are great artists, in this thread I see at least 3, that have the problem at least 2 in this thread, and if you follow the forum for a couple of months you will see that some threads deal with the same subject, whether they are high sellers rep or low rep. And if you have been following the forum for years, you will see that practically nothing is published, and the usual recurring theme is this or promotion post.
Forester wrote
Forester
OK, I'm not trying to fight with anyone. Its just that the language used is a little off-putting. Its now clear that by "the great artists", you mean those who do good work and have high volume sales. You don't really mean to use the term in a way that implies only five people here do good work and the rest are crap or mediocre. High volume sales, of course, depend upon consumer demand for certain kinds of things, as well as being due to the high quality work, and good design skills of the artist/3d model-builder. Spaceships and characters have always been hot topics on CGTrader (more consume demand for those than for furniture for example). Since neither exist in the real world, model-builders who are inspired and have good design skills ( have great ideas) should outsell those who don't have such good ideas about the shape of a spaceship, and outsell those who lack good technical model-building skills. But perhaps the term "the great artists" shouldn't be confined to high volume sellers. And, I do get it - your idea that on the subject of changes in search algorithm, the high volume sellers should have more voice in this matter than any others here. That might be a reasonable opinion. But, you can also see how this could be a little off-putting to any other readers, yes?
TheGoodBrick wrote
TheGoodBrick
I think it's unpleasant for everyone to read some things, but I'm sorry if that's the case, it's also unpleasant for me to read comments that veiledly attack others or mock their problem or insinuate that someone doesn't have a high enough level so it's their problem . And with respect to great artists and small artists, I only use the terms that the other participants had used up to now. Precisely because I found it a bit derogatory. For me there are no great or small artists, each one does what they can and wants, and what they are allowed (and the algorithm should not differentiate them) Regarding the thread, my contribution is that it doesn't matter if you have many models or not, it doesn't matter if you have a great reputation or not, some people have simply lost sales, and it's not a matter of a month, as some condescendingly contribute to the thread now, they are 2 months, on the way to three, and I think that for most July and August will not be top months, so some of us could have 5 consecutive months of low sales. I think it is reason enough to want to know, and above all to expect a little respect from others. And again I tell you that your words don't make sense to me, you keep insisting on the genius of the artists and if that should bring them more visibility... You precisely have the creator of the thread, @CGPitbull, from my opinion, he does wonderful things , things that could be considered great and very cool, but it doesn't have the visibility that according to you it should have, I don't know if we don't see where the problem is. As for me, I don't do very cool things, or that are great ideas, but I assure you that they sell, if they give me enough visibility my models sell, for months they have sold and they have reported a good profit, with good commissions for CGT, so why am I not entitled to the same visibility as the rest? And I know that not every month can be good, I've been here for a while, and I know which months are good and which are not, and since I don't recognize this level of activity, I read the forum and contribute what I can.
RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
"Just to be clear the number of uploaded models were decisive" @Tobias What do you think, having 500 "OK quality" contents would give a kick to a storefront? or you you need 500 "Squir quality" contents to give it energy? I don´t mean scrappy models, I mean models done in an affordable time, eventually from the past - refreshed & retopo, remapped, retextured, but nothing super special next gen stuff. Is doing NOT next gen stuff even profitable in your opinion or better to spend the time on EXPSENSIVE models, that are tipiptopi. Thanks in advance!
Posted 11 months ago
-1

So why would one sales drop after some search algorithm changes?
Are you suspecting the order of your products has changed?

You can test this out yourself right?
If you type the keywords to your products, do you now find them way in the back or something?

For me I notice no change at all in the position of my products (as easily to find as ever) and jet see a steep drop in sales.

If your products are in the store at same position and as easily to find as ever, the reason for drop in sales must be something ells right?

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
I already explained this in the other topic, so i will not repeat, but yes, i did experiments, and yes i saw significant changes (not to the better) in my models order, hence why i started that speculation about reasons behind sales drop. Yes, that's merely a speculation and unless we get official statement from cgtrader, your guess is as good as mine why some sellers have severe disrupt in their sales. In case you didn't read that other topic, there are sellers that had regular sales before, but now they at the third month of completely flat sales, ZERO sales in 3 months, think about it!
Posted 11 months ago
0

By the way, when searching by keywords "spacecraft", "spaceship", "starship" (for example) models author this discussion in the first positions.
The fact that even sci-fi models, like any others, may just someday lose demand for reasons unrelated with CGT Team, conflicts in the world, etc., are not considered?

And as for the demand for explanations, how do you imagine it?

Hey, yes, we really decided that it was time for fat studios to lose some weight and therefore changed the algorithm.
Fat will lose a little weight (this is useful) and thin designers who have previously sat with 20$/month will be able to gain weight.

In any case, assuming that small designers with pretty good models now really have a better chance for sales, what's wrong with that?

RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
Fat will lose a little weight (this is useful) and thin designers who have previously sat with 20$/month will be able to gain weight. But that is not in place, neither with what CGT did with the search algo nor with other things they did or not did. Low pofit artists are now ultra low profit artists.
jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
Meanwhile bug with keywords Sophia and Ghia (for example) has already been fixed. I have no doubt that other bugs will be fixed soon. And at the same time the level of sales will return to normal, even for those who now don't receive anything at all. I will not hide the fact that I don't like it when the CGTrader Team is criticized, and in such a style, as if CGTrader is a conglomerate with a staff of 10 times larger than Microsoft which despite this doesn't listen to anything except the ringing of coins and the rustle of banknotes. This is a misconception.
Posted 11 months ago
0

Curious fact - i noticed that cgtrader silently withdrew at least one of recently introduced magic AI improvement from search algorithm. I can only guess the reasons behind this decision, but maybe almighty AI is not such gift from heaven, like some are keen to think?

jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
The fact that some functions are updated or removed (or some updates are canceled) is an absolutely normal process. With AI in any case there will be dissatisfied users. Even if we take examples with AI artists, for some it is unacceptable and outrageous, for others a long-awaited chance to earn money. With other examples of AI integration the situation is the same. We can definitely say that AI will not disappear anywhere. Yes, there are Elon Musk's comments and many other assumptions but it is obvious that AI will be more and more implemented almost everywhere.
Forester wrote
Forester
Agree with Jaguar, any brokering site that fails to regularly fine-tune its search engines, display and advertising features, pricing functions and similar matters is going to perish. So, these kinds of things should be regarded as normal. Personally, I'm just grateful that CGTrader is not allowing us to be swamped by AI products like has happened to Artstation Marketplace. I am so very tired of looking at AI paintings and supposed "reference picture collections intended for model-builders" now - they are all looking the same and are starting to blur together. Not surprising since its the same AI engines that are making them - but they've completely swamped Artstation. Its hard to search for useful Substance Designer nodes and Maya scripts there anymore - I'm very, very glad that the CGTrader staff is managing things here in such a way that this doesn't happen to us.
RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
With AI in any case there will be dissatisfied users. OMGosh, you believe that BS really don´t ya. AI should be called AS. Articicial Stupidity. No human being will "profit" from AI. Meet Chaos-GPT: An AI Tool That Seeks to Destroy Humanity. CGT has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many another HUMAN-DONE! problems, and seeks and hide in "AI" now. It´s simly alarming and already a 100% signal to what will happen with that totally misleaded (since 2023...) company soon.
jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
CGT clearly has no more problems than any other marketplace. As for AI in any case I think the algorithm will not become so smart that one day it will decide "Hmm, these leather bastards have already earned enough. Now it's time for AI". And even if it ever does I hope that CGTrader AI search algorithm it's not a separate building with a brain which can only be disabled with the help of Will Smith and it will be possible to correct everything much faster and easier.
Posted 11 months ago
0

Someone of course might argue that demand can't fall so fast. But considering for example that on some freelance platforms such a "profession" as an AI artist has already appeared while a person doesn't have any skills in classical, digital painting, modeling or sculpting, he simply writes text requests, there is no doubt that anything can change, and much faster than expected.

Posted 11 months ago
1

Among the thousands of artists, there must be a hundred who had a bad month. For example, these hundred people change every month. Here, too, there are complaints about sales every month. The sales of different artists will decrease in the next month and the topic will be opened again here. My sales have also dropped, but it's not about this site. There are the same models on other sites and the situation is the same. Therefore, the graph does not always go up or steady. That's a problem if your sales drop for a year. But you're only talking about a few months.

3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
while this is true, my sales from the other sites I sell on are consistent with previous years sales and my projections. CGT was the only one to actually have a significant downward spike. Sure this could be a temporary technical issue, a world event, general fluctuations in sales/demand etc however it is a co-incidence that it aligned exactly after the search algorithm update. For example when I see the graphs of sales from other sites the trend is continuously upward, on CGT it almost stopped entirely after April. Without feedback from CGT at this point its just speculation, however its interesting to see its happening to quite a few people in general and when you check their portfolios we are varied across different categories, so its not like real-time assets or furniture only have been affected, its a broad spectrum of content. On that note I would be glad to hear from those who have experienced the opposite or consistent growth since April.
RealtimeModels wrote
RealtimeModels
No. It´s an eminent problem on CGT. And not an "occasional one". Sales stopped already in january, PERIOD.
Posted 11 months ago
1

Hm, interesting. You enter "Sophia" but search changes keyword to "Sophium": https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models?keywords=sophia

It turns out that through the search for this keyword it is impossible to find either the original https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-models/character/woman/sophia-003-animated-idling-casual-woman or stolen duplicate https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/character/other/sophia-animated-001-idling (which of course will be deleted tomorrow).

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
Hey Jag, could you write a personal message to me on CGT?
Posted 11 months ago
0

If someone tries to find a Ford Ghia or a Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia by keyword "Ghia" he will not find anything either: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models?keywords=Ghia.

It is possible that such a bug is also present with other keywords.

3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
Thanks for the investigation, that could explain a few things. If search results are being skewed by the algorithm (changing output) then that makes sense as to why sales have changed recently. Is this something you could elevate?
jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
This issue will be discussed tomorrow. And I am sure that the problem will be solved as soon as possible. By the way, recently there was a similar bug with cars and cats. When searching for the keyword "cat" in search results displayed mostly only cars. Now all has been fixed.
3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
lol, facepalm! Thanks for the heads up jaguar
LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
Cgtrader search engine is autocorrecting what it considering spelling mistakes. This supposedly feature has been there for ages (at least 5 years), but i think many who saw it in action would agree that it feels like a bug, not a feature. I remember when i needed old CRT monitor model for one project - it was virtually impossible to find anything useful on cgtrader, because its search result was absolutely swamped by the models from 3D print ART category.
LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
I checked the same keyword again and it looks the situation has been improved since - now at least models with CRT tag is displayed on the front page, even though you still get 82 more pages of completely unrelated stuff.
jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
Well, in general there is something to work on. It's possible that AI has improved something but also exacerbated some old issues.
Posted 11 months ago
0

Just for interest I'm joined for a moment today modern trends: https://ibb.co/Ns49mGx

Of course AI generators are different and maybe the most popular of them (whose names cannot be spoken) have already learned how to sculpt anatomically correct hands. But despite this, I think that various bugs are possible, which, like the shape of the hands, distort the search keywords and models view in search results.

By the way, returning to Sophia. When following from the model page via tags all is ok: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/sophia i.e. distorted only search query.

Posted 11 months ago
0

Well, of course some strange autocorrecting, though...maybe there's something to it. : D

If (for example) I search for a frog but accidentally make a mistake https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models?keywords=frug CGT doesn't fix keyword but offers me pills, cannabis, mushrooms and marijuana.

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
I think it autocorrected to Drug, but not to frOg. Anyway, i would prefer that cgtrader would suggest correct spelling instead of sneakily forcing autocorrected query. Google search is good example how to do such things properly.
Posted 11 months ago
0

Of course this is only assumption but still if these words "Search with AI describing what you looking for" mislead buyers and they enter incorrect, inaccurate, too long queries, believing that search with AI is something much more smarter than simple search with tags and (for example) instead of writing "voldemort" they are looking for "bald man without nose" and as result don't find what they need.

Posted 11 months ago
2

FYI for those interested, I have spoken to support and they said:

"Our team is currently investigating the issue and we hope to have a resolution soon.

Regarding the recent change in our search engine, indeed, it's possible that it may have affected the sales. However, I can assure you that we are constantly working to improve our algorithms and we will do our best to ensure that your products are visible to potential buyers.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, we really hope to get this sorted asap."

Good to know it hasn't fallen on deaf ears, lets see if there is an upwards change in the coming months :)

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
Don't want to sound too cynical, but i wouldn't hold my breath for something to be changed to the better. Since you contacted support about the issue, they basically had only two options how to handle it - one is to completely ignore you and the second one is to assure you that they understand your pain and that they will do everything in their power to resolve the issue as quickly as possible, even if they actually don't give a damn about it. It's nice that they chose the second option, but that in itself doesn't mean anything. One can hope that cgtrader will do something to bring back sales to its loyal sellers, but you know what's being said about hope...
3DCargo wrote
3DCargo
Yep you are not wrong. I have contacted support about other things in the past and was given option 1, glad it was option 2 this time lol. Lets see how it pans out.
Posted 10 months ago
0

Quote: "and that several people have already noticed a drop in sales since this date"

No Sir!

Most of us noticed a MAJOR drop in sales directly already after the "Pfizer Shots".

Next, after beginning of the Russia-Ukraine BS.

After digital thiefs could hack stuff on Sketchfab with all kinds of cheap hacking scripts with Utube instructions and upload them virtually to every marketplace.

And lastly, after CGT implemented a new search alogorythm that seems indeed to decrease sales for many.

PS: soon we will also experience a new layer of "drops in sales" when;
1. 50% jabbed potential buyers do the "Pfizer Drop"
2. indies go cold with development and big tech including big pubs reach monopols also within causal games areas
3. nobody cares anymore about "nice BG graphics" and puts just rainbow styled XLGBT flags for backgrounsds

Posted 10 months ago
-2

Thieving beggars ukrainians are stealing models again. Here comes the drop in sales.

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