Designer Schwag Challenge Questions

Discussion started by sundaynightsanimation

Hi, I am opening this Discussion to talk about the Challenge Rules of the Designer Schwag Challenge.

I wanted to contribute to the challenge and started to research Project Felix and to check if I can fit the requirments. However these requirements seem very strict in some cases, while in others they seem pretty undefined.

3D Models in Adobe Stock use OBJ files, however the challenge is asking for ma, mb or max files - this restriction means, that participants need to spent a fortune on autodesk products to join this challenge! That would mean, if you get for one month Full Version of Maya now, you already need to spent 185$ just to participate! Why not let the people upload OBJ files, which you can also create with blender or the Maya LT version?

Please note, that Maya LT does also not have VRay, as most other application might not. So instead you could adjust the ruleset, so that the model does need to be PBR shaded instead of asking for VRay in particular. Besides that, it is VERY unclear what textures we need to provide - any normal maps at all? Or should every detail be modeled?

What about polycount? I am pretty sure Project Felix cannot handle millions of polys, so a polycount for each object would be better.

Than this requirement "number of quads 10% - 20% tris" is a strange read, I guess you mean, only 10-20% of the model should use triangles, the rest should be quads.

I guess a lot of people, that read the rules carefully will find similar issues and will hesitate to put any effort in this challenge because of above concerns.

Maybe CGTrader People could check back with Adobe and adjust the ruleset accordingly (since I suspect that Adobe does want to get more 3D Assets in their Stock with this challenge they do have an interest in making it attractive for a lot of artists!)

Answers

Posted over 3 years ago
0

Hi there,

I'll make sure we get the clearances on the questions you've had, though it will take a little delay, so they will probably have to wait for next week, sorry about that.

In the meantime though, feel free to ask anything else if you have something else in mind, and we'll get the answers for those questions as well.

Cheers,
Eddie, CGTrader

Posted over 3 years ago
0

What about if i would want to add FBX, OBJ, MAX scenes for renderers other than Vray to make model more attractive to the buyers? Could i add those additional file formats to a model and still be able to participate in the challenge or should i publish two separate products, one that is strictly adhere to the rules and the other that has more additional file formats to it?

Posted over 3 years ago
0

One more question: could the same model participate in designer schwag and sports & hobby challenges at the same time if it fits in both categories?

Posted over 3 years ago
0

Hi everyone,

Sorry for a late reply, but we made sure the questions made are clarified:

The challenge is asking for ma, mb or max files - this restriction means, that participants need to spent a fortune on Autodesk products to join this challenge! That would mean, if you get for one month Full Version of Maya now, you already need to spent 185$ just to participate! Why not let the people upload OBJ files, which you can also create with blender or the Maya LT version?
>> Our current internal pipeline relies on working with .ma, .mb or .max files that are optimized for the VRay rendering engine. We understand this makes certain products a requirement to use and in the future we plan to expand beyond these requirements.

What about if i would want to add FBX, OBJ, MAX scenes for renderers other than Vray to make model more attractive to the buyers? Could i add those additional file formats to a model and still be able to participate in the challenge or should i publish two separate products, one that is strictly adhere to the rules and the other that has more additional file formats to it?
>> You are welcome to include any files that you want, the ones that will be reviewed for ingestion will be in the formats requested.

It is VERY unclear what textures we need to provide - any normal maps at all? Or should every detail be modeled?
>> For textures we would like these as examples: diffuse, normal, reflectivity, metallic or opacity maps (any maps supported by VRay standard materials are acceptable).

What about polycount? I am pretty sure Project Felix cannot handle millions of polys, so a polycount for each object would be better.
>> There is no maximum limit for polycount but try to use best justment for minimum number of polys without subdivision surface rendering.

Clarify - Than this requirement "number of quads 10% - 20% tris" is a strange read, I guess you mean, only 10-20% of the model should use triangles, the rest should be quads.
>> Yes, this is a better wording of our requirement - thanks for helping us on the language!

Could the same model participate in designer schwag and sports & hobby challenges at the same time if it fits in both categories?
>> We will not process more than one asset of the same name for content for Stock. CGTrader can accept multiple submissions into different categories so you're able to (and welcome to) enter both challenges, but we will only ingest it and tag it with meta data for searchable keywords which could fulfill multiple categories once ingested.

Hopefully that helps!
Cheers,
Eddie, CGTrader

Posted over 3 years ago
1

I need further clarification on what 5 edge Pole vector is, and on the Adobe Standard PBR materials. I just had one rejected for having more than 5 edge pole vectors .. I thought that meant more than 5 edges attached to one vertex. My model did not have the center point connected, it is all quads with very few triangles, certainly way below the 20% max.

Second, it said I needed to use Adobe standard PBR Metal Roughness materials. ( vrayMTL) I used the standard vray material, and only using adjustments created a glass and a gold material. I did not use any maps. So I am very confused. Do you mean I have to buy Adobe Stock materials and plug them into maya vray? I have no desire to purchase their limited materials to participate in this. I even included renders in project Felix, the standard Vray Material does not actually transfer over to project Felix or I do not know how to extract it as an MTL to plug into felix. Felix does not have the versatility of the standard vray Material.

In addition, I have some submissions that did use maps, including a normal map, in the above answer you said "For textures, we would like these as examples: diffuse, normal, reflectivity, metallic or opacity maps (any maps supported by VRay standard materials are acceptable). " Normal maps are maps supported by the standard vray material, so does that mean we can use normal maps? Felix also allows the use of normal maps.

I like to use Substance Painter to create my materials and then plug them into the Vray Standard material, and it works pretty well.

Although I can already tell you the base color in Felix and the diffuse color in Maya Vray do not work the same way. They say it is lighting, however, I tried every light in the lighting library, the colors come are more washed out in Felix, and I am excusing that as it is in beta.

I also just noticed that the terms say the adobe stock price would not have anything under 29.99. If you look that is a subscription price to have access to up to 10 adobe stock items per month. That actually makes it about 2.99 per asset.

Sorry for the long post, I just want to be able to submit with confidence.

Thanks,
Very confused

eduardas wrote
eduardas
Hi Figster, Actually, you can submit your works and our 3D designers will let you know and give some feedback if there is anything missing in the model - you can then republish it for another review. we'll take a look and clarify these questions.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

Please explain what you mean by "max of 5 edge pole"? I keep getting rejected for this when the model does not have more 5 edges connected by one vertex anywhere on it.
Second when you say a "Models should be single-subject only - no groups or series of objects are eligible;" If I have three objects that are of the one theme, making a complete model, is that not accepted? For instance a bottle, lid, and liquid spill You have the bottle, the lid, and the fluid are a series of objects, but they make up the one model theme. Do you want the lid, the bottle, and the liquid all uploaded separately?

ginvile wrote
ginvile
I hope the below reply (covering all the questions from your post) answered you about the 5 poles. With regards to the ‘single-subject object’ this is a bit tricky. If there is a mirror and a jewelry box in one model, this would be problematic and would need to be split into two models. The case you gave as an example for me sounds like it can be one model as it indeed reflects one theme. However, to answer this with 100% certainty, we would need to actually have such model and test it if the Project Felix works fine with that. This restriction has some technological logic behind as well, so this would require a bit of experimentation on our end :)
Posted over 3 years ago
0

How do you remove items from the schwag? I tried going to edit, then unchecking the tic box for the schwag, and made sure the tag was removed and saved, yet it still shows in the schwag, I go back and click edit again, and sure enough, the box is ticked and the tag is there. I tried several times.

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi figster, Actually, you cannot :) The thing is that if designers would submit/withdraw models from the challenge, it would make it more complicated for us to track what is happening, so at this stage we keep "removing from challenge" task for ourselves with rejecting the asset based on not fitting the theme criterion. If your want to remove the asset from competitions for some other reason - just drop us a line at challenges@cgtrader.com and we will do it form our end. Hope this explains. Best, Gina
Posted over 3 years ago
0

How long will it take to know if the model has met the standards for challenge?

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi alishakeri, thanks for the question, and the submissions. We are actually hoping to go through all the assets that have not been reviewed or provided feedback on today, so stay tuned. Best, Gina, CGTrader team
alishakeri wrote
alishakeri
Hi again ginvile, I'm still waiting for my first submission acceptance or rejection fro CGT, it has been 10 days since I submit it. I have added two other submissions but as there were no responce I'm not sure that my models are meeting the qualities or not!
ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi alishakeri, I have checked what is happening with your 3 models - from our perspective they are all fine and meet technical requirements, we are now waiting for final approval from Project Felix team so that they also tell us that nothing unexpected came along. Will let you know as soon as we hear back ;)
alishakeri wrote
alishakeri
Good to know, thank you.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

Or how should I know if my model is rejected and what was the problem?

Posted over 3 years ago
0

Hi Figster,

Thanks so much for the questions and patience waiting for our response. We want to ensure that we do not miss anything on our end and our answers do not misguide you even further :) Hope the below answers help you:

The 5 poles vector:
-> Yes, your explanation on what it is is correct - no more than 5 edges attached to one vertex. Anyway, we are reviewing all your models submitted for challenges again and will send a summary in a separate email, for now, please, ignore that specific feedback. All the models that in the end actually are all fine we will approve shortly.

Adobe standard PBR Metal Roughness materials:
-> We are updating the terms on this point. We require VRay Standard Material and any corresponding maps. For context, Project Felix derives MDLs from these, and even though VRay is supporting MDL materials, these are not yet a part of this challenge.Given VRay materials are well prepared, PBR maps are then optional, because, as you mentioned in your case, the adjustments were minimal.

Usage of normal maps:
-> yes, you can use normal maps. Don’t forget that for textures PNG format is prefered.

I like to use Substance Painter to create my materials and then plug them into the Vray Standard material, and it works pretty well.
-> If you used this technique for Spilled Coffee, Trophy, and Bowl04 models, this seems to be working with Project Felix as well.

Model pricing on Adobe Stock:
-> In regards to pricing, you can find more information in the terms and conditions for each challenge under “Legal” (for example: https://www.cgtrader.com/challenges/3d-challenge-designer-schwag#section-terms). As noted in the challenge description and rules, as long as the 3d model meets the aesthetic, legal and technical requirements set forth in the challenge it will be placed in the $19.99 pricing tier or above (this is based on quality). At this point in time, 3d models in these tiers are not available to buyers with an Adobe Stock subscription plan, and therefore, will be licensed at that price.

I hope these answers help, and feel free to post anything else that is confusing your or following-up if the above is still confusing.

Best,
Gina, CGTrader team

Posted over 3 years ago
0

I hate to be a pest, but now I am even more confused. MY coffee cup shaped like a toilet was rejected for not fitting the theme, even though cups are on your list of items in the terms, is it just because it is shaped like a toilet? It is a humorous coffee cup. However, I can understand if Adobe finds it in poor taste. Is that the case? So I can add "tasteful" to the qualifications if that is the reason. I even tested this model with the steam in Project Felix and it works.
One line in the terms says "Decorative office objects: Globes, hourglasses, kinetic desk sculptures, desk zen gardens, clocks, books" Are we limited to those items? A vase can be used to decorate an office.
I also had an office desk lamp rejected for not fitting the theme? Do people not use lamps on their desk?
There are a number of items on my list that I want to model, but I don't want to waste my time if they are only going to be rejected because they don't fit the theme. Does an office phone fit the theme? You have a yoyo as acceptable to the theme, but not a desk top lamp, so I don't know what to model. Did the lamp fall more into office furniture and that is why? Just really wanting to clarify, as it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

Thanks.

There were a lot of models I did originally that I understand don't fit, and I would have removed a lot of those before you rejected them, if I could have removed them from that challenge myself, and probably would have saved you some time.

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi again, sorry for all the confusion and thanks for posting your questions – if you have those, others might have wondered about the same things as well, so happy to clarify some of those points. Regarding toilet shaped coffee cup – I totally got this is more of a joke, but at the same time, we don’t want to mislead fellow designers on what is expected from the challenge submissions, and this is something that is on the line of aesthetics and realistic schwag, and that is why this specific model was disapproved. Talking of decorative office items, this is not a complete list we provided, but rather guidance, and though Vase is something you likely have in the office, this hardly qualifies as schwag. Spoiler alert: some of your submissions fit the future challenge better ;). I have sent you a separate email referring to those assets (maybe you missed that one, will send you a follow-up shortly). My recommendation would be taking the list of items in terms and conditions and modeling based on that. This is something that would put you on the safe side. Gina, CGTrader team
Posted over 3 years ago
0

As far as my knowledge 5 pole vertexes would make problem on curved surfaces when shading or in case of mesh smoothing, there shouldn't be problem on flat surfaces.

If still it is insisted to don't have them, even on flat surfaces, then how you find them?
I am modeling in Modo, but also have access to 3ds max and Maya, In Modo there is only selection of more than 4 that would include also 5 poles, there is no option for more than 5.
Right now it is near impossible to find all 6 poles vertexes.

Thanks

alishakeri wrote
alishakeri
Nevermind, found a way to select them.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

Thanks for the reply ginvile. I am still confused about the desktop lamp but understand the coffee cup toilet.

Posted over 3 years ago
0

One more question.
An email came to me to make this action to my model: "Assets should have the geometry separated based on the materials"

It seems to say that the model need to have separate elements or meshes based on materials.
But my tissue model has separate items based on material which this comment should be done about it and my other models doesn't have any separate elements based on materials, So it is kind of confusing...
What should I do?!

Btw, It would be nice if CGT shows with an example file or some pics what it needed.

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi, here is the comment from Project Felix team about the materials: Assets are less prone to processing errors if they have separated materials. Simple objects that are uniformly of the same surface type will be fine with a single material, but for best results, please separate materials when surface properties change drastically. For example: Door with a window might have three materials: wood for the main door, glass for the window, metal for the window framing, and a different metal for the door knob and lock. A glass vase will most likely have a single glass material that uses texture maps for any detailing if necessary. Sunglasses might have two materials: glass/plastic for the lens and whatever the frames are: plastic, chrome, etc.
ginvile wrote
ginvile
And also, some good news that we finally have this visual guide to better understand the requirements: https://www.cgtrader.com/challenges/3d-challenge-designer-schwag#section-dos-and-donts
alishakeri wrote
alishakeri
Hi, So with what you described Tissue box had no problem, but it got that comment from CGT. I really have no idea what is going on in CGT office, But if this challenge ends up like this it would be my last CGT challenge.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

After reading all comments, i'm glad that i decided to not participate in this challenge. It looks such a mess from outside. While extremely tight technical requirements can be justified by limited technology of challenge partners, but excessive pickiness over what's fit to challenge theme and what's not, is really confusing. In the poster you can see silly things like bottle or paintbrush, yet staff is dismissing vases or table lamps as not fitting. Really?! Quite vague response to questions "ask today, get answer two weeks later", doesn't boost confidence either.

Meh...

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi, LemonadeCG. I agree that we are strict about the topic, but theme is also one of the rules. Designer Schwag, by definition, includes things that you can attach text to….designer schwag means exactly that. This is indeed maybe the first time we are so strict about rules and technical requirements, and we are iterating internal processes on how to feedback designers efficiently. We are also learning along the way and thus appreciate feedback, that is how we got to prepare "do's and don'ts" section in the challenge. The questions community raises are also sometimes tricky and get's into this category "depends", so we want to test how everything works with real models...and that takes time, that is true. But I want to assure that all models submitted before the deadline will be processed before starting winner selection process. All those models that will meet the theme requirement, will also have a couple of days to fix the technical part if needed.
ginvile wrote
ginvile
Also, though I understand your position, I am sad to hear you decided not to participate. Those participating in this challenge got acquainted with rules, what works and what doesn't , so submitting models for Sports & Hobbies, which lasts longer, becomes easier and quicker. We prepared this challenge to give designers a chance to really understand rules/terms on relatively simple items, and then not to have to redo things when more complex models are being created.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

There was some question before on how to handle a model that has multiple textures, do you prefer one upload per additional texture, or just uploading all the textures at one time with the model?

ginvile wrote
ginvile
Hi, as you most probably noticed, we have approved and made it public a number of your models that are similar, so essentially this could go both ways, and it should work if the textures are uploaded together. What I would like to suggest, however, that it is maybe worth to stick to one texture and focus on the asset itself making it more detailed/realistic, etc. and have single texture that would in the end leave everyone amazed.
Posted over 3 years ago
0

Nevermind, by the time this gets answered the contest will be over.

Posted over 3 years ago
0

Ok thanks, ginvile. I'll keep that in mind in the next challenges then.

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