Reselling assets

As far as I know selling rendered image is allowed only if the model is part of a scene or animation and is not allowed if it's just render of the model as is.

But then you'll get next question: what is a scene? - One puts that model "inside" an HDRI with it's lightning - he has a "scene" consisting mainly of the model "as is".

If we just talk about royalty free license it just tells you the model can be used in any commercial project as long it includes the model in 2D form and not as it's sold (e.g. obj, fbx or whatever format which could be rendered by someone else then). Selling or giving away 3D - prints of it is prohibited as well.

@trimitek: Have not found the paragraph it tells you it must be part of a 2D scene though? - Any hint?

@Mineral3D I don't think there is exact description for such cases and if this is considered as an Incorporated Product.
In your HDRI example that may be interpreted differently, but I think if the author complains to the stock site, his claim will most likely be approved and the stock image removed. It may depend on the stock site, but most of them are very strict on copyrights.

Addition: To take other people's / firm's models convert them into other formats and resell them (even in "slighty modified form") is copyright infringement / stealing as well.

@3DRTcom: Did you borrow accidently models of 3Dfoin on reallusion store?
https://www.reallusion.com/contentstore/FeaturedDeveloper/profile/#!/3dFoin/iClone
And some other stuff you sell looks pretty common to me...

"Turns out clients who purchased your models are allowed to resell them in other slightly modified form like rendered videos or 2D images." No, they are not. AFAIK, 2D stock sites require that you own copyright, or copyright owner's permission on everything that you sell there. One cannot buy models at 3D stock marketplace, re-render them and sell renders on 2D stock sites. This is illegal.

CG trader response:

Hi. Just had a client stating that he got permission from CGTrader to resell 3d models as rendered 2d images.
Is it allowed by your license agreement?

Hi there,
Thanks for reaching out.
Yes, it is allowed. Please see the attached image. (part of license agreemrnt screen included)
Please let me know if you require further assistance.
Kindly,
Agota

There was probably some misunderstanding.
If the following was the text in the screenshot then it is stated that the customer can USE the rendered image, but can RESELL the render only as PART OF stock photography (the mentioned Incorporated Product).

21.2. The Buyer’s license to Product in this paragraph is strictly limited to Incorporated Product. Any use or republication, including sale or distribution of Product that is not Incorporated Product is strictly prohibited. For illustration, approved distribution or use of Product as Incorporated Product includes, but is not limited to:

- as rendered still images or moving images; resold >>> as part of <<< a feature film, broadcast, or stock photography;

I think at this point it would be helpful if topic starter could provide a link to his customer's asset(-s) on 2D stock market and his own model(-s), so we could more clearly see the situation, because now it feels very confusing, when everybody talks and asumes different things.

There is lot's of questions.
@3DRT:
1. If you own 3DFoin who is selling in the contentstore of reallusion you should know their EULA well (especially §§ 3 -7 under "Limitations") :
https://www.reallusion.com/Reallusion_Content_EULA.pdf

So if you own 3Dfoin then you are still not allowed to sell products using
reallusion meshes outside their marketplace.
Same is fact for export fomats.

Since 3Dfoin sells not only on marketplace (where everyone can sell) but also on the exclusive content store for artits chosen/invited by reallusion only those products on there must not be sold somewhere else (§3).

( Since you sell on their store you must have also agreed to their "Content Developer Agreement":
https://www.reallusion.com/Content/CCDAgreement/CCDAgreement.htm )

Maybe you have a special written permission by reallusion to do different.
In that case I'd be wrong and would apologize for my assumptions!

2. Why don't you sell 3Dfoin characters / products in iClone formats here as well as you do on reallusion content store and why do you charge people here twice and more here then? - That's if you have written permission of course.

3. I was trying to get in contact on friday with 3Dfoin.
If it's you then you could have answered me already. Or the website I tried to contact them is fake:
https://sites.google.com/site/3dfoin/ - Then you should sort that.

4. Concerning stock images / videos: If you use original or derived from original rellusion content / meshes it's forbidden by them to resell on stock sites as well (§2 ons econd page in EULA) even so you are allowed to sell 2D outputs elsewhere.
You can even print them on up to 1/2 million packages of a product you sell or 500000 T-shirts, etc. (§3). - Just no stock sites.

Anyway this is not meant unfriendly but all these points make people wonder a lot and should be clarified.

Hi there,

Thanks for reaching out.

If the item is sold with the Royalty-Free license, you can use it and sell it as an incorporated product (rendered still image).

For illustration, approved distribution or use of Product as Incorporated Product includes, but is not limited to:

*as rendered still images or moving images; resold as part of a feature film, broadcast, or stock photography;
*as purchased by a game’s creators as part of a game if the Product is contained inside a proprietary format and displays inside the game during play, but not for *users to re-package as goods distributed or sold inside a virtual world;
*as Product published within a book, poster, t-shirt or other item;
*as part of a physical object such as a toy, doll, or model.

An example of an incorporated product - you can buy a 3D Print model, print it out, color it and then incorporate the model into your own project. But it can be sold only as a part of something you created.
Or incorporate a model in your video game scene.

Products published on CGTrader may not be sold, given, or assigned to any other person or entity in the form it is downloaded from the site.
The Buyer’s license to product in this paragraph is strictly limited to Incorporated Product. So you can only use it as a part of your own product.

Kindly,
Agota from CGTRader

I agree with LemonadeCG that copy-pasting an extract of your terms not helps on this issue.
There is still to understand how these terms can work with the ones off several stock sites.

Some of us discussed that before in another thread here where LemonadeCG was pointing to the terms of a stock site which definitely only allows stock images where the person who uploads at them must be the copyright owner of every little thing / detail displayed.

Since someone who buys a 3D - model here or somewhere else is not the copyright owner / creator of it that does not fit. So would be great if you could bring some light into lawjungle.

To my knowledge a copyrighted design is not allowed to be simply rendered out, photographed or 3D printed and then be sold/licensed out as a new product. However, a royalty free license usually grands rights to let a design be part of a “new work” (probably again subject to interpretations).

As far as I know a “new work” means that the incorporated licensed work must only constitute a smaller portion in the new work and not simply be the work itself displayed in other format.

CGtrader license kind of leaves room for interpretation on this and suggest rendered images of the design can be sold as stock. Its not very specific in mentioning the designs can only be part of “a new work” (displayed in those stock images). Instead it uses the term “incorporated” in product, a loosely defined term that can be subject to misinterpretation.

For that reason I am considering to implement custom license terms on all my work very soon.
I want it to be very clear my designs cannot be rendered and sold as stock. There can only be “some” circumstances my designs get part of a stock image and that is if the image is a complete new work. Meaning my work could be in there somewhere but its unrecognizably incorporated in a new design “new work”.

It will be easier for all of us, if instead CGT reworks it's Terms&Conditions in that area and makes it more clear.
Otherwise we all have to start making new licenses :/

@ Mineral3D, good research work. It's a shame because it seems that neither the user nor CGT is interested in clarifying this. Surely Reallusion has something to say.

Yes it looks like there is no interest to clarify anything from neither side apparently.

Seems 3DRT has to obscure things.
If he/she/it/them or whoever runs a serious business then would definitely have clarified everything and wouldn't have had any problem to prove my earlier assumptions to be wrong in every point.