help with a member of cgtrader
Discussion started by humbernalu
I have been buying models in cgtrader but a member of cgtrader offered me to buy the models outside of cdtrader because it pays commission. make the payment via paypal but do not send me the models.
Answers
In this case it could be said that fraud was commited by both the seller and the buyer... against cgtrader.
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"...In this case it could be said that fraud was commited by both the seller and the buyer... against cgtrader."
I have to disagree.
CGT does not require exclusivity from sellers or buyers and it is not the owner of the models nor the 3D market itself.
Anyone is free to sell or buy "outside" of CGT.
Does selling on TS constitute to be fraud against CGT too? After all, it is not only "outside" but the main competitor...?!
But... bypassing a site - this very site or any other - comes with a price tag: risk.
In exchange for the commission, they privide a legal framework and security.
What the buyer did was against the "common sense", not against CGT.
And what the seller did - if this is what really happened - simply fraud.
To take the money without delivering the goods - is fraud.
Universally.
It does not depend on being "inside".
This is my 2 cents.
Well yes, technically it's not a fraud. Buyer just did a stupid thing and now he's paying price for that. But i don't understand your position, are you implying that cgtrader is obliged to protect OP just because he found the seller through its search? Or you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
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It is fraud against CGT, minimally it is unfair.
Because artist uses CGT site for presentation and for attracting customers. Without CGT nobody probably wouldn't know about his models and probably nobody wouldn't buy his models. He would have to pay for advertising. But attract customers to personal web site is practically impossible.
With turbosquid it is totally different situation, because customers are buying models from TS because they see model presentation on TS site not on CGT site. So this is no fraud against CGT when somebody buys models from other markets.
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"... are you implying that cgtrader is obliged to protect OP just because..."
No, I don't. CGT did not even take any part of this, why should be responsible for anything.
I see nothing in my post suggesting that.
"...Without CGT nobody probably wouldn't know about his models..."
This is most probably true.
And without sellers and their models nobody wouldn't know about CGT or TS either.
They provide us a platform to showcase and sell our assets, and we provide the content to be showcased and sold. There is a dependency in that, but this dependency is mutual. It goes both ways.
And we pay for this service, this is not a favor.
So to summarize:
We all agree that "bypassing" the system is not very wise, one could end up losing his money.
What we don't agree on is that whether or not it was a fraud agains CGT and whether or not the seller comitted farud agains the buyer by not complying.
Your points maybe would be valid if cgtrader would charge its users by fixed amount for providing trading platform, keeping their files online and attracting customers. Then dealing with payment outside of CGT wouldn't hurt them. But now, every attempt to bypass CGT with monetary transactions, does direct damage to them. Just imagine, if suddenly everyone would decide to make payments outside CGT, how long it would survive? IMHO, bypassing the system isn't only unwise, it probably breaches agreement between seller and CGT and even could lead to termination of that agreement. I imagine if similar thing would surface in well known rival market, seller probably would be kicked out without second thought :]
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Dear LemonadeCG
CGT charges for its services. It's called commission.
If you open your Sales section you can find out who your customers are, you can view their profile and you can make contact with them if you want. CGT does not forbid direct connections. And every job offer and every dierct contact holds the possibility that the parties left them out. And yet, they are seemingly not affraid of it.
Because their cut is low. It's not worth the risk and they know it. They don't regard it as a threat, otherwise they wouldn't provide you informations about your customers, would they?
Does TS name your customers or allow you to contact them? No, they don't. Because their cut is high. It would be worth the shot.
So if CGT itself does not regard it as a threat, why should we?
The difference between our opinion - as far as I can tell- is that you wanna forbid this attempts and I don't.
The market, the low cut and the risk are gonna take care of it.
The reality does not need us.
Is there any possible angle left we did not exhaust yet on this matter?
We could move on to other subject...( although I enjoyed the discussion- mea culpa...)
"The difference between our opinion - as far as I can tell- is that you wanna forbid this attempts and I don't." - i don't know where did you read that in my arguments, but i would want to ask you not to try to put your words into my lips. I didn't even hint that i would want that cgtrader should cut short direct communication between a seller and a buyer. In fact very opposite is true, i do communicate with my buyers a lot and i'm very grateful for such opportunity.
Now, on the rest of the topic, i think we both have to agree to disagree, as we have too different opinions on what is appropriate and what's not in this market. Contrary to you, i'm not enjoying our discussion, so i would be glad if we could end it here ;]
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CGtrader and its community basically gets ripped off as well because they have to pay for hosting data, investing in marketing, paying employers for creating and managing a platform and providing all the technology for publishing the artists works.
Simply coming in here and use all of that and not pay a cent for it is also a form of committing fraud.
Its also bad for everyone on the platform because they need to pay a bit more for all these expenses.
You can best define it as parasitic behavior that has negative impact on evryone.
The market is flooded with "stolen goods". With sellers who sells stolen models and with buyers who buys stolen ones knowing or at least suspecting they are stolen. If you use the word "parasite" for someone who has lost his money by getting uncautiously into a sale - the illegality of wich is still to be proven - what word are you gonna use for them and their effect on the community? And the money that CGT could have lost on this one is handsomely compensated by the profit they make ( unknowingly, but still...) on pirated ones. I could agree with what you wrote in itself, but in context...sorry, I just can't.
Sorry, I was pointing to individuals that use CGtrader to upload models and use all its features (including exploit of build in communication) to then make the transaction outside of it.
I could indeed be wrong in naming things.
With regard to @humbernalu he could be telling the truth, but he could also be using a strategy here for getting a free model, how would we need to find out whats real?
Its probably best he sends a complaint to PayPal via resolution center (or whatever money transfer he used), telling he transferred money but not received goods.
The problem is however that this could also be a strategy to get goods and at same time get money back.
Did or did he not get the goods, hard to find out right?
Very hard to resolve this type of things, let it be a good lesson, thats my recommendation (I'm not a judge)
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https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/plant/pot-plant/modern-potted-plant
Hello! This user used my 3d model
You are a little "off-topic" here with this, but here is the link you need:
https://www.cgtrader.com/pages/cgtrader-content-policy
Ah sorry, i've misread that. Well, i wouldn't say that i want to forbid this. I think that it's unfair and probably brakes some rules, but it's cgtrader's job to take care of that, not mine. I just don't share your opinion that such behaviour is totally fine. That's it.
Anyway, if cgtrader doesn't care about it, why should we do?
If the communication system gets exploited systematically then CGtrader would feel obliged to take measures and restrict communications, this is bad for everyone.
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