Turning standard licenses into AI License automatically? Really?

Discussion started by turrogil

I recieved an e-mail today stating that all models by default have an AI friendly license?
I only got 4 models, so I just went to my models page and changed the license inmediately on all of thems, but come on...
I believe CGtrader shouldn't be giving permision to unrelated unknown scrapers to do whatever they please with the models, and state that I will somehow be compensated for it, without even bothering to explain HOW I, or any other creator, would be compensated for having our models as part of an AI generation tool.
I'm not personally against AI development in general, but the current technology is full of overpromising grift and intellectual theft, and I don't want to be part of it unless the use of my work and the compensation for it is clear and well defined, and i just find it incredibly unethical for CGtrader to just change licenses without asking their contributors first.
I now wish to make the following questions.

-Exactly how and in what "transparent and designer-friendly way " will creators will be compensated for the AI training done using our models? and how will that "maximize the income" I get from my model portfolio?
-What AI companies are part of this?
-Will I lose rights to my models if they become part of an AI model?

Answers

Posted 3 months ago
5

The move by CGTrader to foist the "AI friendly" licensing scheme on artists against their will reeks of nefarious intent. The default should have been no AI licensing, thereby giving artists the opportunity to opt in, should they desire to do so. I have gone ahead and changed all my model to the Royalty free no Ai licensing, because I have no desire to participate in any 3d generative AI grift. Talk about willfully stepping on a land mine for a paltry one-time fee.

TurboSquid pulled similar nasty dubious stunt when they automatically opted everyone into some text to 3D AI scheme, before sending out e-mails stating you can opt out by selecting that option in your settings. At least with TurboSquid you are able to opt out by just pressing a button. CGtrader forces you to manually opt out.

Presently I am having second thoughts about publishing new models on CGTrader. With all the nefarious underhanded practices by 3d assets vendors regarding 3D generative AI , It's looking more like I will be going back to creating animated shorts and series, while restricting sale of 3D models to Unreal Marketplace (or FAB when it is ready), Gumroad, Renderhub and Blender Marketplace.

VityaB wrote
VityaB
What's FAB?
VityaB wrote
VityaB
I've checked it out and looks promising. One thing I don't like about it that it has a 3d viewer. It's very easy to steal assets from that viewer. Notoriously easy to do on Sketchfab.
dibiadigital wrote
dibiadigital
The 3d viewer is a big turn off. My guess is that it will be an optional feature.
dalia-lasaite wrote
@dibiadigital One difference in the change that we made from competitors you are naming is that the models on CGTrader with AI-friendly license will be sold at marketplace prices, and not just any price. I think this is very important to make sure that designers are compensated fairly in case they choose to sell to Generative AI market
Posted 3 months ago
1

F*ck you CGtrader. I'll not try to change licensing and other shit. I just delete my works at all.

turrogil wrote
turrogil
Considering they already hold your data and they already did this without anyone's consent, I don't believe there's anything stopping them to keep it and use the data anyway even if you delete it. I don't know if either the EU or Lithuania have some kind of "right to disappear" law to assure that your data is properly deleted from their servers.
Posted 3 months ago
3

If decisions need to be made to change the licensing terms of the artists, then those artists should ideally be in the loop.
AI train is moving at light speed and it appears leading to hasty decisions?

turrogil wrote
turrogil
According to CGTrader's investors page, the company has been getting funding mostly from 3 VC firms Checking the blog from one of their firms, Practica VC, it seems their last round of funding happened in February 2021. Practica Capital still grades them as "GRWOTH" company, so my very, very wild guess is that their investments in the "metaverse" at the time didn't deliver as much as expected and now they need another trendy "innovation" in order to get more capital in the future. [links for reference] https://www.cgtrader.com/about-us https://practica.vc/en/news/-3d-model-provider-cgtrader-raises-95m-series-b https://practica.vc/en/investments/cgtrader
Posted 3 months ago
8

I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, but it seems strange how the first AI change seemed to have affected sales negatively for many artists, then now CGTrader is giving us a magic "opportunity" to somehow make more money, with a scheme that seems just plain wrong.
Create a problem, and then generate a fix that is supposed to be a solution, and have everybody automatically enrolled. Something stinks here.
They automatically change the licensing, to opt in, without giving us a choice. It should be "opt out" unless we chose the opposite.
There is no link in the email to explain what this technology is, how it affects us and how artists will be compensated. They just allude to "future monetization opportunities" which seems rather vague.
I exclusively do STLs so I'm not sure if this new AI play space will affect me. It seems like I'm automatically opted out.

turrogil wrote
turrogil
Considering I haven't seen anyone from cgtrader's staff make any comments on this topic, I guess this whole decision was made by people whose entire job is sitting an office while wearing a suit, most likely people from the VC firms that are funding the company. Funny how the most replaceable people are pushing the technology to replace people.
turrogil wrote
turrogil
I guess in cases like yours sir, their next move is gonna be to promote "AI friendly" 3D printers? "Print friendly AI generated models"? I would still change the licenses if I were you, because these ideas sound awful enough to be promoted next.
TazMan2000 wrote
TazMan2000
It's possible that STLs would be included, but I think it would be easier for AI to do a fully built and textured model, rather than one that was parted out for a kit. AI would have to learn how the model went together. Still, I don't want to be a part of it. The technology is here, and we all have to figure out how it will affect us and hopefully, work for us. Nobody likes change, but unfortunately change is a part of life.
Posted 3 months ago
7

If I put my model on with one license how can you change it without me? I am not sure that it is legal. Because if so, why can't you just make all our models free? Or just declare that you, from now on poses all exclusive rights for our models?

dibiadigital wrote
dibiadigital
I believe that tech bros and AI grifters are beginning to realize they cannot do to 3D what they did to 2D, which is the brazen theft of intellectual properties without consequences. They have tried to woo 3d artists with nonsensical rosy pictures like "maximize your earning potentials'' and "open up new windows of opportunities'' to no avail. It finally dawned on them that no 3D artist with a functioning brain will purposely step on a land mine for chump change (they are usually very vague on the "payment" part). Now they are trying to collude with feckless 3d model vendors.
turrogil wrote
turrogil
CGTrader is a Lithuanian company. I guess they are trying to get as much data before the EU finally decides to start slapping regulations on all of this mess, and have some level of "deniability" just in case a class action lawsuit comes to get them, just like the lawsuits Midjourney, Stability AI and others are facing now in the USA.
Posted 3 months ago
0

The funny thing is, that the only model which automatically recieved noAi license is a model, which I share for free. I guess they care that nobody will use my free model for AI training ;)

turrogil wrote
turrogil
Interesting. Then I want to ask more questions: Will sellers be compensated for any model they uploaded for free if such models are used in cgtrader's generative AI? What if an unrelated party to cgtrader uses the free models for THEIR OWN AI model? will CGTrader defend their right to scrape.... I mean, the intellectual property rights of their sellers?
Posted 3 months ago
-4

Can anybody tell me I should set my models to "Royalty free, no AI" or "Editorial, no AI"?

LemonadeCG wrote
LemonadeCG
Contact the support and request to change license to NoAI for you, they should know which license is fitting for your models.
Posted 3 months ago
-1

In answer to turrogil - from day to day I'm more confident that such a lot of stolen stuff on this site is not just a coincedence. For example - in mid-october I've reported a stolen stuff 4 times and wrote a letter to cgtrader support, here is screenshot with mail:
https://www.imagevenue.com/ME178IRK

here is the link to his account https://www.cgtrader.com/asstudio21

and screenshot:
https://www.imagevenue.com/ME178ITW

And what do you think? It has change something? No, that account continue to sell models even after I report every model in his review section and made his front page screaming - "I'm selling a stolen stuff". And there are millions of similar accounts. So what do you think - If they have a possibility to train the AI with 2$ models - why should they pay you?

Thanos-CGTrader wrote
Thanos-CGTrader
Hello, this user was not banned due to a mistake from our end. We thoroughly reviewed their account and models and that user is now banned from CGTrader.
Posted 3 months ago
-1

I definitely don't blame that assigned agent name Dovydas and as I wrote in the review - it's definitely not his fault, it's the policy of cgtrader. It's the policy of cgtrader - you report one account with the stolen models and day after the same guy open three new acounts with the same models

Thanos-CGTrader wrote
Thanos-CGTrader
Thank you, this is definitely not our policy and we are taking your comment on the better moderation seriously. If you or any other member of our community spots a similar situation please report it, we will do our absolute best for fraudulent accounts to be banned as fast as possible from CGTrader.
Posted 3 months ago
-1

And these three new accounts will also be banned. Some thieves register new accounts but CGTrader policy is to blame for this. You propose not ban thief but shoot him so that there are no relapses? Оr what?

Posted 3 months ago
-1

So, as we all knows that each user setup his payment method, which of course require ID check. Is it difficult to ban that users by that info, so they will not make a new accounts?

jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
Holy naivety. Idea that thieves are much more resourceful and can register new accounts using other data (their friends, relatives, etc.) ever occurred to you?
Posted 3 months ago
0

Really? They will use friend payout acoount? And if that account also will be banned, how many friends they have, which will aloud to use their private payment account?

Posted 3 months ago
0

During this year me in collaboration with Support Team banned 1262 thieves accounts therefore regarding deletion of thieves accounts you are so wrong.

Posted 3 months ago
0

Hello all, let me clarify some things regarding this “license change”, what it means moving forward and how it compares to our past licensing offerings.

Up until now, all your paid models were under the standard Royalty Free license that was established before AI became a thing in the industry, and it didn’t specifically address AI in its terms. The terms regarding paid content did not explicitly mention AI which led to the interpretation that using models for AI training was already allowed since there was no legal restriction stated. To clarify things, we revised our existing license, including terms related to AI to prevent any ambiguity.

We are totally aware that some of you might be opposed to AI, so we introduced a new license that explicitly forbids using models for any AI training purposes and legally prevents anyone from purchasing and using them for this aim.

Since we totally respect your views on this matter, we will not be doing any deals until everyone has the time to decide. We are always looking for new opportunities for our designers and we were excited to present them to you. We can not take opportunities away from you but we are always giving you the option to opt out if you don’t see value in them.

I really hope this puts things into perspective and I will be here to reply to your questions.

turrogil wrote
turrogil
My bigger issue is that CGTrader turned all licenses into "AI-friendly". As you mentioned, we sellers introduced our models into the site before AI was a thing. Whit no explicit consent from not a single user on this site, CGtrader turned all licenses into AI friendly. NOBODY signed up for this, it was IMPOSED on us. Moreover, there's no concrete explanation on how users will be compensated for their models on the AI. This is a terrible breach of trust on us collaborators to the site. If CGTrader is really committed to the interests of the people creating content for the site, CGTrader should automatically turn ALL licenses to the standard royalty free no AI license, let the INTERESTED USERS to OPT IN, and then apologize to all its users for this utter disrespect.
Posted 3 months ago
0

Thanos,

Based on what information we should decide to go for or against A.I.?
You did not give us any!

Answer the questions from the first post, please:
"...-Exactly how and in what "transparent and designer-friendly way " will creators will be compensated for the AI training done using our models? and how will that "maximize the income" I get from my model portfolio?..."

FACTs and DETAILS, without empty, populist "bright future" and "new opportunities" gibberish...
Can you do that?

Thanos-CGTrader wrote
Thanos-CGTrader
It is simple, designers will be compensated at marketplace prices, not cheaper bulk prices like many competitors are doing.
turrogil wrote
turrogil
So, in the case my models get used by the AI, will I be compensated for every "prompt" users make that reference my art? Or will I only be compensated by each user pulling my model? Or are you implying that once my model is "purchased" by the AI, it will never pay me again, despite reusing it for possibly thousands of times? Will my payment be at market price every time? How will I be able to know how many times my art has been used by the AI? will it be visible in my dashboard? Will I get to see any metrics on how are they being used, so I can potentially sell more appealing work? IF YOU ARE SHOVING AI ON EVERYONE, AND YOU ARE TRYING TO CONVINCE US THIS IS A GOOD THING, THEESE ARE THE KIND OF QUESTIONS I WOULD APPRECIATE BEING ANSWERED
Posted 3 months ago
3

Let's put it simply, if i would purchase some models from fellow designers here, add some modifications of my own and put the models back on the marketplace as my own, i would be rightfully called a thief and banned forever. When large corporate business want to do essentially the same, cgtrader is more than happy to change their licensing and sell their existing userbase without second thought. And they call this fair compensation. What a jokers!

Posted 3 months ago
0

Absolutely agree ! The next stage in the evolution of theft : Game/Sketchfab -> Ninjaripper -> AI -> Rightholder, bingo !!!

Posted 3 months ago
0

Jaguarbeastproduction - you can visit their site - it says there, that their software is used especially for "level editing". And if you want to blame me in something - I can proove every model which I selling here and people can proove it

jaguarbeastproduction wrote
jaguarbeastproduction
In my opinion just a marketplace forum is not the best place to publish any info about such “level editors”.
Posted 3 months ago
-1

Jaguarbeastproduction - you can visit their site - it says there, that their software is used especially for "level editing". And if you want to blame me in something - I can proove every model which I selling here and people can proove it

Posted 3 months ago
3

If I understand the AI platform correctly, it doesn't seem fair that artists get a one-time payment of 1.5 times the cost of their model, to a platform that can use their model a million times. AI is here to stay, and whether we like it or not, we have to live with it whether it be on this site or others. You can leave this site of your own choosing, or you can stay and see what comes of it. I predict there being some big-time changes in the modelling field. This will adversely affect a lot of artists and change what quality is available to consumers. Those artists who flood the market with cheap models will probably initially get a boom with sales but subsequently get less and less as time goes by.

Like any field which has too many people in it, a correction is in order to find a balance. Nobody likes bad news, but covering your ears will not improve your situation. Soon, choices will have to be made.

I predict that the CGDream platform will be successful at first, and the result of that will be other sites developing similar platforms in order to cash in on the 'wave', which will again cause a correction. Some companies will prosper, others will die.

turrogil wrote
turrogil
As you said, AI is definitely here to stay, which is why it is very important to voice our concerns whenever we see the possibility of abuse of our work. I've said it before, I'm not personally against AI development in general, but progress never justifies ripping people off. From the info they have provided, I just see no fair trade to us sellers, and the lack of communication from CGTrader on how will compensation work, is telling to me, that they haven't even figured that out. They are probably trying to beat turbosquid into entering the AI grift, so they can better whatever low offer they give to its users. My humble prediction for CGDream, is that it will not be that profitable for the company in the long run, but it will be used as the cool gimmick to bring in investors on for a few years to come, until the EU slaps them with regulations, or somebody sues them in the US.
Thanos-CGTrader wrote
Thanos-CGTrader
As previously mentioned it is not a one time payment. Our goal is to create a system so the designer gets paid when a user wants to use their model. Also, we want to make it super clear that CGDream does not train any AI and doesn't use the models for any kind of training. It only uses them to guide the creation of images.
TazMan2000 wrote
TazMan2000
OK. Thanks for clearing that up Thanos.
Posted 3 months ago
0

With AI in long-term it will be about the same as with new films, etc. The Lion King 2019 is certainly cool, but the original has not been forgotten and is still better.

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