Dumping on superior models

Discussion started by klisan

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/gun/si...

Look at this model, it is located on the main page in the window of the site. Is it permissible to sell such models at such prices? Maybe the administration will somehow react and models that have an affordable price can get into the storefront of the site? Judging by the price, it can be assumed that the model may be stolen. It seems to me that the question has matured that it is worthwhile to do something with the dampers, the site has a bunch of opportunities to reduce prices, discounts, coupons, bargaining, but why put such a low base price?

Answers

Posted 22 days ago
1

Why not? (if this is not stolen models). If pricing isn't regulated by CGT terms, modeler\designer\seller is free to appoint any price. Designer is trying to reach at least dime on overcrowded market.
However, the method of selecting models to display on the main page looks very strange.
Honestly, your words smells like the Envy. But from other side I know what is to have quality made models and have no chance to sell it with fair price, because somebody placed some similarly looking shit with the price of matchbox.

For example I tried to set different prices on my models. And concluded: there was no correlation between price and sales. And completely no sense to placing free models (they rapidly appears after it as commercial models and without any respect or gratefulness from downloaders... whatever, it's another theme... )

...and as designer making items for real life I don't understand, why fVking LOW-POLYS for useless games and spammy AR-apps are so overpriced. (It's my own ENVY, yes)

Posted 22 days ago
1

Things are very simple - 99% of all non-Blender, high quality models, that are sold for very low price are either stolen or made with pirated software.
Normal person who invested in software licenses and education will not sell his hard work for peanuts.
Nor will waste his time modeling something complex that already exists in the market with the purpose to sell it heavily underpriced.

Posted 22 days ago
1

"Normal person who invested in software licenses and education will not sell his hard work for peanuts. " -- totally WASP-ish hypocritical bullshit. Nobody is secured about bad or good future. Sometimes people can have troubles.

It's MARKET. We are living in the world of "free market", and here is no sense to cry about dumping or to asking "moderators" about some rules or protection. Market is moderator.

And it's not related to the software price nor software legal status.

zabotlama wrote
zabotlama
Nobody is crying. There was only very good point that fradulently/extremely underpriced high quality models shouldn't be promoted on main page.
Posted 22 days ago
0

Can you elaborate how having trouble or good/bad future is related to what I said?
There is direct correlation between pricing and piracy and that is clearly visible.

If you can't afford expensive software, there is Blender and loads of free tutorials.
Nobody is forcing you to steal - you have a choice.

And you have some really weird comprehension on what free market is.
Free market doesn't mean you can sell everything you steal.

I personally don't think there is a need prices to be regulated.
If 3D marketplaces make it a requirement to present an invoice for purchase of the software in order to be able to sell files made with it, you will see how the pricing problem will be greatly reduced - for the exact same reasons I stated on my first post.
3D Stock Photo sites are already doing this check for renderings of interior scenes, so this will inevitably come to 3D marketplaces as well.
This will solve a lot of problems like this one.

zabotlama wrote
zabotlama
"If 3D marketplaces make it a requirement to present an invoice for purchase of the software in order to be able to sell files made with it" Great idea and every serious (fair) seller must support it. Only problem is that this should be arranged by all markets (otherwise CGT would lose position with other competitors-markets)
Posted 22 days ago
-1

"...a requirement to present an invoice for purchase of the software in order to be able to sell files made with it"
YOU MADE MY DAY, DUDE!!!

"There is direct correlation between pricing and piracy and that is clearly visible" -- words , empty words of naive enthusiast.
I'm worked and still working using both of tools: legally gained and "pirated". I'm not shy about it. And this doesn't means that my models made with "cracked" software are worse than any other or that other "legal" models are better.

Posted 22 days ago
0

What????
So using stolen tools in whatever bussiness is OK?
I can steal car and operate a taxi service with it?
Are you serious or under influence of some drugs?
And you are publically writing here that you are thief and you have no moral problem with it?????

skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
If I'm making bolt I don't care about what lathe I'm using. I made this bolt with MY hands, MY head and from MY material. So why I must care about tools (if I don't have lathe, it can solve visit to some of my friends who have tool that I have not). I can't steal a car. And I'm not taxi driver. But if some taxi driver tells me that I need special license to drive my neighbour or friend to nearest city, I will say him: Fuck off. And I'm serious. Probably you invested too much to crappy autodesk's subscriptions and now you're biting your elbows. But who is guilty? Me? Horde of ex-USSR or hindu "designers"? Autodesk? God?
zabotlama wrote
zabotlama
I invested 0$ into Blender and 20$ monthly to Substance subscription. :-D And if somebody has any problem its not me. ))
skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
Glad to see your vise investments. And glad to see that both of us don't having problems. :)
skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
And your cars are looking very good. Respect!
Posted 22 days ago
1

Man, I have no problems. You can blame me in drug using (and YES, BUDDY, I LOVE TO SMOKE and doing it a lot).
I'm understanding your problem. But you don't understanding that it's not a problem at all.

Posted 22 days ago
1

I don’t know how it will affect the price of providing evidence that you have licensed software, this restriction is easily bypassed. For example, you can upload a model in formats that a free blender supports, but all sales sites have free format conversion services, i.e. any format will be made to you, even if the seller has not provided it. Something like this, I think if you think about it, you can find many more schemes how to circumvent such restrictions, it seems to me that something else is needed here.

skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
Anybody trusts in quality of automatic format conversion by online service?))
trimitek wrote
trimitek
It will affect the price, because when you pay for your tools you better understand how valuable they are. - When you get something for free you do not value it. - (as skapricorn found out with his free models) - Format conversion takes time and has specific problems along the way, you can't count that as real workaround. Some may try to provide fake invoices, but that's much more serious crime and can be easily checked with the software provider.
Posted 22 days ago
1

And long story short:
If anybody have doubts about stolen model selling, there is button with three dots (called "Report model"). And if you have proof that model was really stolen, just report it. CGT admins and moderators doing they job very well. They helped me lot of times.

Posted 22 days ago
1

Unfair competition is one of the big problems we suffer here (and in all 3D markets). It is directly related (among other things) to unlicensed software (or student license) and to stolen models. It is easily demonstrable, it is harmful and that is why it is illegal. CGT should end this immediately. It is unacceptable that it is boasted about it publicly. In many countries there are laws against unfair competition, including the US and the EU, and agencies that can be called upon to report. These agencies are independent and can also act on their own initiative. It is time for ALL of us to join together to fight this.

The idea of ​​asking for software invoices seems to me to be a good idea, easily implemented and already contemplated in internal standards. Many of the users with stolen models have inconsistencies in the file formats (different software and versions for each model, almost always obsolete), which are either pirated versions, or will not have the indicated software. Sometimes, there is not even a native format. The simple presentation of the invoice in the process of registering the seller would eliminate many of these problems and obviously regulate the prices. We would all win.

Another example: 11 quality models, which the original author sells for more than $ 1,000, this user sells them for $ 2

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/motorcycle/11-vehicles-3d-models

It is shameful. If I had invested a few hours in making them and a few dollars in licenses, I would not sell them at that price.

Another example, could be the user who has been asking in the forum for several days how to modify a DAZ model, I suppose it will be to hide the evidence. In a few days it may be on sale for a couple of dollars. There are many cases of these. That is why mesh catches are important and in any "premium" model they should be mandatory. What translated means in ALL, because here, everything that is not free is premium, although the truth is, as far as presentation is concerned, most suspend (without any information, few images or 1 repeated several times .. )

As long as this type of thing / people is not finished, the market is doomed to extinction, such as telephone booths. Those affected, especially those most affected and with such obvious and substantial evidence, should denounce, because in addition to the economic compensation (high in their case), it would serve to make people aware of their rights and obligations, and of serious consequences that these behaviors can have. If the cheats go unpunished they will not be long in coming back.

CGT should also move token, as an affected part that it is, (like all of us), it would be a strategic movement that would attract quality buyers. Because let's not fool ourselves, those who buy quality models for prices far below their real value, know perfectly the dubious origin of the model, and that is also a crime. It is not the ideal type of customer for any business and also leave little benefit. They are like those who go to a restaurant, but they take the food from home and only consume a soda, the owner of a luxury restaurant would not allow it, but maybe the one in the neighborhood picnic area, yes.

They miss original and quality models, probably good modelers have looked for something more profitable to do. Many of the new models that are seen every day are neither new nor quality, because they have been going around for years (and decades) around pirate pages. Even some of the modeling assumptions are not even, and the accounts are used for other things. All this hurts us all greatly.

Posted 16 days ago
0

The example on top is not the best, we are talking about things like this:
https://www.cgtrader.com/bomova

Look at the cars (3DSMax + V-Ray) and the prices.

Legitimate user who pays for his software wouldn't even think about putting such price on a model that takes weeks to complete.
If, for example, he is on 3DSMax subscription , he should pay €254,10 per month only for that and he will be losing money with these prices.
There is also V-Ray, PhotoShop, SUbstance etc.
Making 3D models is not cheap if you pay for your tools and if you see such price this is clear indication that something is stolen - in this particular case the cars are from Evermotion.

skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
OK. Can you share with us the formula you using to calculate "fair" price? If you are doing (for example) 1 model (or scene) per week? (Anyway quality models demands pretty much of time and work).
trimitek wrote
trimitek
I personally don't divide prices on fair and unfair, I would say people that sell quality models on such prices are just stupid, because they are not earning what they actually can. The math behind putting the right price is not complex and is based on what the customer saves by buying your model (and he is saving both time and money). I wrote that example before in another thread, so I'll just copy/paste (it was about a model that took 30 days to complete): "Let's presume you had worked 8 hours per day (you can make your own calculation if it's more or less) - that is 240 hours. Let's take below average rate for 3D Artists of 15$ per hour - that makes 3600$. If I am a customer who needs this model I'll gladly pay anything below that price, or even the same price if there will be no additional work involved (for fixing errors or making modifications). Why? - Because I just saved one month of work (and salary) to someone on my team and he can work on the next task immediately. Time = Money."
Posted 16 days ago
0

And another notice about false logics "if you invested lots in the tools, then result can not be sold cheap".
When you are investing in tools some amount of money, you must to know, that this don't guarantees further success. When I operated with park of 3d-printers, for me was very clear: this expensive gear is't intended to recoup itself. But this gear gives opportunity to made product or service that pays todays needs of workshop: to pay taxaes, to share salaries to workers etc. And this scheme works. But if you have ambitions and vanity to get back your investitions in this machines, you will fail (at least without asking and getting help and protection from regulating institutions, but this more smells like false qusi-communism, it's not true free market).

So if you are investing big funds in gear, better if it's your funds. And if you are investing in something by taking loans or borrowed funds, then you will be nervous and will ask help of "big brother" every time when somebody will afford smaller price than yours.

And it's not only about gear, but also about software. It's real life, not MBA-Narnia. And in this real world subscriprion-based business model looks as scam and evil.

Posted 16 days ago
0

"When you are investing in tools some amount of money, you must to know, that this don't guarantees further success." -
Well, of course there is no guarantee, there is no guarantee for anything in this life.
If you are afraid that you will fail, you just don't start.
That is no excuse to steal software.
If you are confident in your skills you take the risk, invest and either fail or succeed depending on your skills.

I also don't like subscriptions, but I'll not judge if they are good or evil - the creators of the software decided that this kind of payment is best suited for covering their expenses and investing in further development, and they have the full right to ask their price, just like you have the right to ask the price for your creations.

skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
i'm not "excusing" so called "stolen" software using. I'm just saying once again: the price isn't linkable with software costs. At least in our case of making models for sale via internet. All you said is true for "offline work" or for work with clients who are your old and stable customers who are almost friends, almost partners. They knows about costs. But internet crawlers don't knows and don't cares about all this shit. They are just searching for cheaper models.
trimitek wrote
trimitek
I'm sorry, but I fail to get your logic - if the people on internet are so very different from those you meet offline and don't know or care about your costs, that doesn't make your costs disappear, you still have to pay them. And you can't work at a loss, because you will bankrupt. If 3D marketplaces start asking for proof of legal software you will not get the unfair competition you get from people that don't pay for their tools - prices will normalize and everybody wins, including CGT. Those who decide to buy their software may be surprised how much more money they will make when they put a normal price.
Posted 16 days ago
0

In the real world, there are laws, and if you start a business without a license, for example a workshop, and traffic with stolen cars you may end up in jail. If they stop you in a customs house with counterfeit material the same. But unfortunately EVERYTHING is allowed here, which does not mean that it is not still ILLEGAL. By your words it is clear that you do not respect anything and that you have already had problems with important brands (which have resources and a great team of lawyers, in addition to the law on your part). For sample, an extract of the description of one of its models:

"This replica is good enough to not be a fake. (Or it's just free mock to theme of wedding bands with bolt heads blah blah blah). Logo to the shank (and to the special layer) was added just for fun. Anyway jackals from Richemont holding (Cartier, Piaget and lots of another shit for rich donkeys) will report this model with and without logo as copyright infringement because this bastards PATENTED bent nail (!!!) and bolt or screw head (CAAAAAARL !!!). But I'll place this model here again after next blocking. "

I do not understand how CGT no longer takes care of the image of your business. And even more when it can legally splash you. Soon CGT will enter the category of illegal download pages, if you continue to allow these things.

skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
If you think that my models are suspicious or made with the help of pirated software and if you have evidences about it, just report it. :) And when you using as primer "bent nails" - I don't stolr this model nor design. I just and only modeled (BY MYSELF) bent nails and I' mdon't pretend to calling myself "Author" or designer. (Before using "finger" as example of "ass" thinking is needed). And for me is very funny to read how "designers" with ugly models are didputing "how unfair is the life"
skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
And believe me, CGT takes care :) When somebody report mofel, CGT blocks this model immediately. Also when somebody sells model, CGT haves %% on it. Pretty stable and fair.
skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
Oh! I totally forgot to say Thanks for viewing my models. It gives me more chances to sell it :)
skapricorn wrote
skapricorn
And if you talking about law, at first say your words to customers. Maybe if "great lawyers" can number what I done last 20 years, how many "cartiers", "bulgari's" and other "haute" crap I modeled and made in metal for my customers, I will win warm placeon electric chair. But thanks god, people are not as naive. And I can say one more thing: I never had "cheap" clients. Most of my customers are able to buy original luxury goods, but they don't want. Because they also don't feel any sense in buying overpriced (and not always quality made) original trinkets. And here is another (not so small) segment of people, who already have originals, but don't want to wear and losing it. It's why they are ordering and buying replicas. I don't want to say that I love to "stamp fakes". No. For me would be great if somebody buying MY models (models that I made for my pleasure). But in today's world people prefer to buy f*cking "cartier". They need this "cartier" and I need to pay my bills and taxes. We all need each other :)
Posted 16 days ago
0

And if talking not about dumping but about "stealing" and other copyright issues, i can say about pair examples:
1. Couple of years ago Turbosq. banned all models of Ford vehicles, because that was "legal" will of Ford Motors.
2. Disney. They always was idiots and are showing disneyish idiotism again:
https ://www.ign.com/articles/2019/11/24/baby-yoda-gifs-removed-over-disney-copyright-issues-star-wars-the-mandalorian-mando?amp=1
In the same time not only CGT but any other stock affords lots of star wars models and other popular stuff.

Posted 16 days ago
0

It's a very nice looking texture, but I think the only thing for sale there is the silencer. So the model itself is actually just a tube consisting of around 300 vertices if that. The only real work involved there would be to paint the texture for PBR (substance painter most likely). $3 seems a little low for the work that went into painting the texture maps, but not unreasonable. Especially if the only thing for sale there is the silencer itself. However, this brings up the question of advertising ethics, if that is in fact the case. Is it honest to show only renders of the entire weapon and other items if the only thing you get in the download is a cylinder with some nice PBR textures?

Posted 16 days ago
0

Damn it! What a fool I am, I thought that this is the whole AK machine, I'm a nerd :(

luxxeon wrote
luxxeon
It's not your fault to think that. Without really paying close attention, the seller does seem to indicate that the product is what you see in the renders, which is the entire gun. Only the last image render is showing what is truly for sale there, and you'd also have to look at the vertices and poly count to know for sure.

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