Does the term "Non-AI License" refer only to the 3D model or also to rendered images?

Discussion started by paulander74

My question is this: the term "No-AI License" obviously clarifies that the model itself, the source code of the .fbx or .obj cannot be used to train AI machines because it would violate the author's copyright and cause damage to the company's assets. But if I bought a model, I created a complex built-in 3D scene in which this character is animated, and then I rendered it as a video, can I implement the rendered output by uploading it to an AI generative platform (ex Runway)? NOTE: 1) The model in this case was used according to Art.21A.2 of CG Trader ToS for " rendered still images or moving images; resold as part of a feature film." 2) What is used in an AI generative tool is an MP4 or a PNG rendered by Blender. 3)platform as Runway are not designed to upload and generate AI 3D models.

Answers

Posted about 1 month ago
0

I hope you do not take my ideas as a personal assault (they are not), I’m reacting to a movement that is trowing copyright into the trash bin. The legal framework is broken so we can only rely on keeping the ethical norms up ourselves (if we want to keep something of copyright alive).

My clear answer to your question would be “no AI” also apply to rendered images (mp4, png, etc.). The terms say, quote<<“Licenses marked with "no AI" tag do not permit “Product use” for machine learning or training of neural network models, including generative AI models>> end quote.

I believe “product use” means product use, the use can be whatever, e.g. decompose the data (product) to other format, render/rasterize, voxelize, etc. Non of these data resulting from the use can enter a training dataset or enter generative AI models.

(I would argue that is when the work is still recognizable when incorporated in a scene and even more certainly when it is standing on its own)

I also believe this would have been common sense a few years ago, but some companies decided to start an infinite public discourse about fair versus unfair use and made international copyright law a moving target. They also keep adding all sorts of reasons to the discourse so it can go on indefinitely (how they like it). So now when someone says, pleas do not use my work this or that way, it seems not that common sense anymore to honor it. That is why the question on top of this post sounded like nails scratching on a chalkboard to me and it probably colors my comments here so don’t take it personal.

I hope my comments (buzzing with some frustration) somehow wake readers and prompt them on reflecting on how this can possibly get to a positive outcome?

In few months from now (maybe year tops) the only thing one is going to need is images and then this CGTrader repository is basically free to download, just copy paste the presentation images into an AI and there you have the 3D model, the only thing left holding this back is (fading) common sense.

paulander74 wrote
p
Thanks for the long answer and don't worry. I have never thought that you were "assaulting" me!! I was just specifying that if I opened this forum with such a delicate legal topic ( on something I could do without saying anything to anyone) it's because the topic interests me on both a professional and human level: work and copyright others must be always respected And your words fully convinced me. I don't even go looking for legal confirmation. If I want to throw a character into a program that would use it to train AI,even if I'm talking just of a renderered image, I have three ways that are safe both for me and the creators: 1) I make it myself the character and do everything I want of it! 2) I order a character "on demand" to a professional creator with a contract that includes precisely this kind of use. 3) I use other things, drafts, faceless mannequins etc.. to recreate something similar to the real character within a built-in set (all mine) prompting a description for AI Video gen , without uploading anything that is not mine. While you've been so kind so far, I ask you... what do you think about these solutions? See you!
Posted about 1 month ago
0

Keep in mind that copyright does not apply only to the 3D model/source file.
The 3D model/file is a protected work on its own, the design it is depicting is another also protected work on its own, so a 3D model usually has this two layers of copyright on it.

So one can render an image and deem it not to be the 3D source model anymore and be right, yet still not own the copyright to the design depicted in the rendered image. The character design would need to be rendered unrecognizable in order to call it a new work and claim ownership and be free to do whatever with it (until then, terms of original artist do still apply on part of the image).

If you upload that image/video to AI image/video services, those will undoubtedly use it to train their next models. According to unjust laws (that’s my personal view) they are allowed to do that even with no consent of any artists (on premise of out dated “fair use doctrine”).

Apart from that, if someone mentions “No AI training” in the terms of use, then most likely that person does not want his/her work be used (fair or unfair) for training an AI model. This perhaps also implies one should honor and safeguard their terms and wishes.

Consider the following in this (for now) far-west of AI copyright law!
You might “probably” safely disregard the wishes of someone who objects to their work being used in AI training. The question is, would you be such a disregarding person, or perhaps only honor the wishes of someone else when that someone can make you pay for not doing so?
Why wait until law catches up with unjust and use common sense right off the bad?

We can honor the wishes of another person in hopes they do so evenly strongly with regards to our own wishes, but that’s an individual choice to make.

paulander74 wrote
p
Thank you for your attention to my question and for your long and constructive opinion. It is very important for me to listen to what the creators say. But mine isn't an ethical question. It's a legal question to proceed accordingly with permit of the authors themselves. It's not a slight difference. I'm here because I have an extreme and almost obsessive respect not only form my copyright but of all those from whom I purchased or obtained licenses. So much that, unlike others, I am literally blocked in my work by all the legal constraints that I have imposed on myself to respect both the law and the authors!! I could have done it without any permission and probably no one would have never even imagined it but I didn't do it. Instead I have opened a small forum on a delicate topic (I didn't find many other like this on web), I have contacted the authors directly and I have an open form with the US.Copyright Office about this issue too. Then, the images I'm talking about are the renderings. When you open a creator's page on CGT there are ultra-detailed images of the face and body to sell the product. Do you think these images were not absorbed by General Artificial Intelligence and then redistributed to all lower generative engines? What you see on the site are close-up images that an AI engine has already used in the best possible way and without the consent (this is wrong) of the author who made them public. But without which they obviously couldn't sell the product! This is the current condition of all us who just publish an image of themselves or something personal on a social network. I say this with certainty because many models - not the ones I'm using at the moment - were recommended to me by Chat GPT - exactly described and complete with links. While my rendering would create an image in which the face is often modified, covered by glasses, and occupying a little portion of the frame. So, if for once an AI training process will be used to create another work of art (even if of questionable value!!), the author paid credited and recognised ,I do not believe I will cause harm or expect punishment. This should be the target of every creators in the next few years. Why I told you this? Because Blender already has a fully AI automatised tool to generate object within the software-(paste)"Blender AI addons offer various AI-powered features, such as personal assistants like BlendAI, text-to-3D model generators, texture and material creators, image-to-3D model converters, and render enhancement tools using Stable Diffusion or other models." Upload voluntarily the source code of an .fbx of a copyrighted 3D object of someone else on a chat is totally another behaviour. This for me is a crime despite anything the law will say in the next years. Then if you read the post, I already tried to contact the authors to ask them for permission and offer compensation but I didn't get anything as an answer. Not even a NO! So it seems to me that not everyone pays as much attention to their models as I am doing with works that aren't even mine!
Posted about 2 months ago
0

Absolutely. The AI is a grey zone and there are a lot of tricks.
I had already contacted general support, but they told me to contact the authors directly.
Maybe because they couldn't answer me a legal question. I contacted the authors, but they didn't answer me. Not even to say "I don't know!"
Now I'll try to send an email to the legal office. If I have any answers, he will let you know here.

Posted about 2 months ago
2

I think your best bet for most reliable answer is to contact the support. They're the most qualified to explain the nuances of licensing. If you do reach out, please share a brief summary of their response, as this might be beneficial to others who might have similar questions.

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