The certification of TS is a parody and totally subjective, I know because I had certified models there, but still attracts quality buyers and it is their great asset. I also know that the CGT team is much more efficient, unlike the TS team, which are only bureaucrats. I talk about technical aspects, totally quantifiable, and that therefore can be automated, not subjective appreciations. But yes, it could be something similar, but well done. Some time ago it seems that they tried to do something in this sense, because I have seen some models here that have an additional tab with technical information. At least it should be mandatory to fill in the boxes that already exist, such as number of vertices, uv map ... that many people leave blank.
Monthly balance
Hello,
These are the data extracted from the analysis performed in approximately 30 days. The models of the 3d print category and the free models were excluded from the analysis.
To date, 26 users have been eliminated: 19 of them have been completely deleted, another 5 have been deleted all models, but not the user, and the remaining 2 retain some models. The models deleted to these users are more than 4,500. Two days ago I sent another list of 18 users, with multiple examples of non-original content and evidence to prove it. These users have more than 2,600 models in total.
When these last users are eliminated, there will be a total of 44 users and 7,100 models, detected in a month of observation. Extrapolating the data to one year, the figures I think are to take into account (528 users and 85,500 models). That is to say, 27.30% of models violate some norm and / or law. Or put another way in round numbers, 1 out of 4 published models. **(with rather conservative figures and counting, with no one like the one detected 2 years ago, with 12,000 models).
All infractions detected are for non-original content, from models published for free, here or in other websites and resale, Daz models, models with the exclusive certification of another website, models available years ago in stinky pages of downloads ... All they break the CGT regulations and some even the law.
I have also found many users whose models are in several web of free downloads, mainly due to the concessions they make in the license of the other websites where they publish their models. These models represent a high percentage of the models available in free download pages and are usually medium / high or high quality models, which sometimes even come back here, published by other users who obtained them on those websites.
Unfortunately, the least I have seen are good modelers, creatives, with their own designs and quality. Not because there are not, that there are, (and some very good, with their own clearly defined style), if not because they go unnoticed among the multitude of non-original models, which cheats publish in time that an honest modeler takes in make a quality model. For example, this user:
In my list it had 30 models, two days later it already has 44 (of course they have left the same site as the others) :
*****It seems that there are problems to upload the image. The image was a screenshot of a Chinese website******.
Note the product number 4,446,523 (more than 4 million, all for free download) and the date of publication more than 2 years ago. (A watermark has also been removed in the lower right corner).
All other infractions to third parties have not been taken into account in this analysis, publishing with the wrong license and without permission brands, models, characters, books, photographs ... that for those who do not know, except in some exceptions , is a violation of the intellectual property law.
And they are only those that I have been able to detect, surely there are many more, in addition each time they hide the traces better. Which leads me to ask:
Why some users have deleted ALL the models, but not the nick? Are they going to be allowed to continue publishing models? I understand that there is a scale, depending on the percentage of fraudulent models, but in cases of 100% the expulsion should be permanent.
Many of these users had customer ratings. Customers are the hardest hit, because using stolen models could jeopardize your project and cause future economic losses and even legal problems. What is the official position in these cases? Is it compensated and / or communicated to buyers? To minimize these cases, we must act quickly and avoid repeating them.
Are you going to adopt some preventive, dissuasive, early detection, control ...? I think it is imperative and urgent to do something because a problem of this magnitude and seriousness deserves to make an effort.
Regards,
Eugenia.
Answers
- From what I've seen, all models that are not free are rated as premium. All those models with software 10 years ago, or in which the seller, instead of worrying that everything is correct, is limited to include a text in the description warning that textures may be missing, models without native format or with a poor presentation ... I do not think they can qualify as premium, (or the seller as a good professional). Those who strive to make their work impeccable and not to be sloppy should be rewarded. In my opinion, if they are not able to make an effort in a good presentation, which is the first thing a potential client sees, much less they will strive to do a good job. I have even seen cases, in which the only description of the model was "to know more buy the model". I believe that just as there is a system of scores for the presentation of the model, there should also be for the technical aspects, which are even more important and can cause incidents, refunds and negative evaluations (which not only affect the seller, but also the image of CGT).
- I think we should create an association of professionals and a code of good practices, that help us defend our rights, including fair prices, according to the quality of the model, and that guarantees buyers the integrity and quality of those vendors and models originals That would attract quality buyers, willing to pay what is really worth a good model (I think there are very few buyers of these currently, just look at the statistics, most do not even vote the model and everything that is worth more than $ 30 they already seem expensive). The price war between sellers harms all sellers and only favors opportunistic buyers (who are those who want to buy the model as cheap as possible, probably thinking about having a margin to be able to resell).
If users deleted for infractions can not use the account again, I believe that these accounts should be deleted:
https://www.cgtrader.com/humantools
https://www.cgtrader.com/bobst
https://www.cgtrader.com/johnpope180
https://www.cgtrader.com/3dpurecg
https://www.cgtrader.com/zen-3d
Other proposals:
- Eliminate the free models, or at least reduce the number of free models per user to 1 or 2 models. I think that those would be enough to fulfill their purpose, which I think is, that potential buyers can see your way of working before buying your model. But in reality, what they serve is to attract cheaters who then publish those models as their own. Currently there are almost 225,000 free models, which is more than 30% of published models. There are even users who ONLY have free models (in large quantities) and above are not the authors of these models. Instead of being free for all, free models can be offered to buyers, as an added bonus to the purchased model.
- Increase the number of characters in the forum messages, I always have to do a double post because the whole message does not fit in a single post.
Thanks Andrew, I'm glad you were useful. I hope everyone (except the cheaters) gets something positive out of this. I think that people are not aware of the scope and gravity of the problem. I'm going to open another post with examples in reverse, that is CGT users models that are in pages of illegal downloads.
Many of the models from fraudulent websites, which have already been deleted, had negative ratings from buyers, due to lack of textures and similar things, or due to the language of the file. I have also seen other vendors, who give instructions on the description of the model, how to install the Chinese language on the computer, which is, where the model is, even if the seller is from any other part of the world.
Another of the users deleted, had a rigged robot, with the weights clearly wrong, because in the poses of the images it was totally deformed, but the rig was approved by CGT. I think you have to pay a little more attention to the quality of the models. These cases are just examples, but there are many same (obsolete software, lack of textures, illegible characters, textures with copyright, poorly assigned licenses, poor quality ..) You have to sell original and quality models to attract quality buyers, not models that are years ago available for free download on other websites, or even here, such as this one:
image 8/12 (in the mesh it is clearly seen)
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/sport/lamborghin-aventador-lp-750-4-low-poly
image 3/3
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/sport/lamborghin-aventador-lp-750b-4-superveloce-low-poly
and another user already mentioned and deleted also had it, the 3 downloaded it from here:
image 15/21
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-lamborghin-aventador-model/1117798
Another example, published in 2018
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/furniture/table/baroque-mirror-table
free since 2013
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/free-baroque-mirror-table-3d-model/735933
Thanks for answering, I was already looking for a way to eliminate my models and disappear from here. I hope that action is taken soon, because it is urgent and important. I have seen that 10 users have already been removed. There are 2 doubtful cases of which I will look for more tests.
Other 3 cases, (well documented), are cases of architects with products with logos of several studies (some more than 3) of different architecture. I suppose that the study will have legal personality and will be the owner of the project. And the seller must have the corresponding authorization (which I doubt). Also the client of the original project (for example the nursery of one of them, in which images of real children come out) would have to give his authorization. Another example, on the website of one of the studios, framed in a large red square:
"This design is sold to the customer and is on the floor and avoids re-copying or executing the same design! Otherwise, the thief of this design will bring legal responsibility. You can contact us to request your own design. "
It is curious the enormous amount of money an architect charges for a project, but then they come here to sell complete scenes for a couple of dollars. (and probably the filling elements of the scene have not been made by them). Why do they waste time and money on this if they would earn much more by doing architectural plans ?. I have also seen cases, in which they sell the material used, for courses of visualization of scenes with some rendering engine.
The other 3 remaining users of the list, are related to each other, and well documented, the 3 have inherited very old models (2009) from a TS user that no longer exists. I even sent a screenshot of twiter where he made it clear that he was selling his collection of models. Two of them have not bothered to delete the logo. For example
of a user
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/furniture/lamp/eichholtz-lighting-collection
of other
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/furniture/bed/treccani-modern-bed
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/furniture/table/baker-le-lion-bronze-table-3782
The third user has deleted the logo, but the models come from the same page as the others (I also sent links and the images are identical except the logo) They are published last year, again in 3ds max 2009 (10 years ago) What professional does not care about using updated tools? Probably those files can not be opened with a current version.
Other users (of the new list that I will send soon), put this text for example:
* IMPORTANT NOTICE: PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU'VE GOT THE LATEST VERSION OF ARCHIVING SOFTWARE. NOT ALL OF OUR PRODUCTS INCLUDE MTL FILE WITH OBJ AT THE MOMENT, BUT YOU CAN REQUEST AND WE PREPARE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
continue...
Hi Tecna,
Thank you for your feedback and suggestions.
There are several good points that will surely be discussed with the team.
Meanwhile, I can clarify a few things right away: users in no way can reuse the account if it suspended due to stolen content - the account is being banned for good. In case of a single/several removed products, our specialists could not decide with certainty that the product(s) in question are in fact infringing our terms of use or the report from the community simple lacks valid evidence. However, such users are being added to our suspicious user list - if the user is in the list already, any continuous valid stolen content reports will result in an instantaneous termination of the account.
If any of you will find stolen content on CGTrader, please report it to support@cgtrader.com or info@cgtrader.com with the evidence using the following structure:
-Original/source product link
-Infringing/stolen product link
In some cases, received reports are invalid because original product link directs to the infringing one and vice versa. Please submit reports only if you are sure with great certainty that the original product link, in fact, directs to the source.
Best of luck,
Mantas
Continue...
- Make a campaign of disclosure about licenses. It seems that there is a lot of confusion on this issue, that like all issues with possible legal repercussions, we must take it seriously.
- Do not allow models to be published without a native format according to the license. Most models without native format are more than doubtful.
- Force to include clear images of the mesh and the UV map. The topology is what best identifies a model without a doubt, and allows the original author to check if it is his model (something to which he should be entitled).
- Increase the reaction capacity to erase cheaters. (If they put more impetus in preventing them from entering and re-entering, there would be fewer cheaters to erase).
- Make a special follow-up of new users, or with suspicious behavior (hanging too many models or at very low prices).
- Take this issue more seriously, because its passivity favors cheaters, is an irresponsible and negligent behavior, and an insult for designers who let their skin on this.
I do not know about the measures of other sites, but I have seen violations of their rules. It would be good to join forces, and also sellers should join forces.
My proposals are directed mainly to CGT, because they are the ones that have the means to (allow / avoid) disseminate the fraudulent models, and therefore the obligation and responsibility, but it seems that they are not interested. If they do not put filters to detect cheaters and do not prevent them from re-entering again and again, (*) this will never end, or rather the cheaters will end up with this.
Things that sellers can / should do:
- Protect the render with watermarks, logos ... The cheaters are very vague and often do not hide them, so it is easier to detect them.
- Make original models, that come out of your imagination, with original textures, so if you see one like yours, surely they have copied it. If you make a car, of the same make and model that many others have made, and above there are no images of the mesh, it will be impossible to know if it is the same model.
- Put the files in a .zip with password and send it only to the buyer. The password can be changed in each sale, which would allow knowing the origin of the filtration. You can also include some lost comment in a certain line of the .obj file, or some script .., although it does not help much, but something may help, because they do not bother to update the files, today many models are published in 3ds max 2009 - 11 -12 ....
- Read carefully the rules of the different websites selling models and not publish the models on websites, with licenses that allow, that those same websites resell the models. I think that many of the models thus reach the pages of free downloads and many have watermarks of the websites of origin, or are distributed as collections of those webs.
- Send complaints to Internet providers of illegal websites. If we face each other, our complaint will sound louder. Even smaller animals such as ants, for example, if they are united, are capable of doing great things, such as forming bridges to cross rivers, or building large anthills.
- Lose a few minutes to check if our models are on the web, and take a look at the models just published here. There are very blatant cases, it has always been said that 4 eyes see more than 2, and we are many users (and many eyes), that does not happen to us as bluebird com.
- Communicate to the original author (whenever possible), any infraction that we detect, he can demand that the files involved be removed, before 48 hours and he has the right to decide if he undertakes other actions. If the author is not known, but the model violates the rules because it is not original content, it must be communicated directly to CGT, providing evidence.
- Report, because the law is on our side and so the cheaters, will think twice before doing it again.
Things that CGT should do:
- Prevent that you can have more than one user (silence on this topic, I interpret it as if it is possible and that favors cheaters).
- Do not allow more serious offenders to reopen account, and for the rest of the offenders there is a time scale based on the percentage of fraudulent models and the seriousness of the infraction.
- Make the real name and the country are always visible, to prevent cheats can camouflage and open several accounts.
- Request the current license of the software used, when registering as a seller, and that only formats backed by licenses can be published. (This would prevent pirated software and student licenses). There is a lot of fraud here, too.
(*) Sometimes, not even close the accounts, only the models are deleted, but they retain the reputation, views likes .., won with their stolen models and so they can reload their models in batches quickly. I'm still waiting for you to respond to me because those accounts have not been deleted.
Thanks, but I did not find there recommendations for the seller, only for the client. I think the client is not interested to follow these rules. Maybe you have thoughts about the protection of the designer on his part ?.
I think that a regular blog is needed with laying out violators for society and CgTrader employees, I am ready to help in this blog or group, only I can’t learn how to recite fraudsters.
Also develop a system of protective measures by the designer and not the client.
https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/general-discussions/something-must-be-done-already
In this link there is a post with the proposals I made, divided into 3 action fronts, some are very simple to implement but would help a lot, such as for example that the name and country of the seller is always visible, or that it is obligatory to include clear images of the mesh. Only if CGT enforced current internal regulations would it improve the problem a lot.
In the same link there is another post with the current regulations in force, which in addition to the internal rules, includes links to legal documents of Lithuania.
Here I add a link to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is the US version of the copyright law.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/2281/text
Unfortunately there are many thieves here too. Once I had to file a legal notice for a thief at the Argentina to remove my model from his list. But before I noticed it was already downloaded about more than 600 times.
In the future I think beacuse of those violations designers will abandon 3d selling marketplaces because they do not take care of the thieves enough.
Btw thanks for the information.
Luckily, CGT has acted quickly and there is no trace of the user who boasted in the forum of "their" cheap and quality models. I add this, but there are many more cases, for example:
stolen model ($ 4.90):
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/racing/bug-50de8a3f-ef2f-4852-b1e7-4be1c06f8522
Original model ($ 119):
What possibilities does the original author have of selling the model?
stolen model ($ 50)
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/car/standard/dodge-ram-lafd-paramedic-2014-3d-model
original model ($ 95)
https://hum3d.com/3d-models/dodge-ram-lafd-paramedic-2014/
What possibilities do the original authors have of selling their model? If we do not finish with this problem, he will finish with us. I insist that more control measures are needed and increase the reaction capacity to quickly eliminate cheaters. I already have another list waiting to be processed last week.
Definitely the forum is dead. And if nobody puts a remedy, I believe that this business model is doomed to extinction, just as it happened to the video rental businesses (videoclubs). There are many free download pages, with millions of models (many of them of quality, including many of here and other similar websites). What does CGT have special for customers to pay for something, which can be obtained for free on several websites, and which is identical?
There are several types of customers, but the most abundant is the one that is motivated by the price and that, it is clear that you will opt for the pages of free downloads. Another important sector of clients moves by the quality, but the clients of the great jewelers for example, do not expect to see necklaces of macaroni, nor plastic bracelets in the showcases, nor people selling fake watches of mark inside the own shop. They would leave terrified there. Here everything that is not free, is premium and we have many users like this one:
https://www.cgtrader.com/em67re
with models published months ago, with absurd prices, names and categories of ridiculous products, models with watermarks from other websites, images with copyright, undervalued models, published with software with a student license ... that do not have Chinese characters, offers in some cases as a plus. And all that does not attract precisely quality buyers.
(*) All were well documented and there are more waiting. It is clear that the pace is insufficient and the capacity for reaction and controls must be increased. The first to be eliminated are those that affect owners who are going to assert their rights (Daz, TS), which shows me that something can and should be done.
First let's clean CGT. The passivity of the users is understandable, but there are things that can be done. Many authors enforce regulations, and google removes thousands of links to pages every day, involved in claims filed by this topic. The law requires the removal of suspicious material in less than 48 hours. Sometimes it is not even necessary to file a complaint, the authorities can act "ex officio".
Here, CGT is the authority (in the first instance), and they are the ones that can (and should) establish controls to enforce their own standards and the law. Also in the previous thread I made several proposals, reasoned and reasonable, to try to alleviate the problem (but they have fallen on deaf ears).
They are the ones that can (and should) quickly eliminate fraudulent material to prevent its dissemination and reduce the number of affected buyers. For example, all buyers who have purchased any of the more than 200 Daz models that have been deleted to date, and that are subject to a fairly restrictive license, (they do not seem to put much enthusiasm in this either, unless the interested party himself is the who claims).
Another example: The user that I mentioned, that at the beginning of this thread (and of the week) had 30 models, already has 65 and at least one sale of this model.
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/character/fantasy/ironman-rigged
that this other user also sells
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/character/man/iron-man-63dd091b-00b3-4fbb-91f0-9958f5965eff
and that is available in at least 2 pages of free downloads, for several years. The offending user has not yet been deleted (both are, but one was not on the list).
In spite of everything, I doubt very much that they do something, everything what happened so far indicates it. I know they have received the list that I sent earlier this week, because they have already deleted 4/18 (*) users, not because they have answered anything (neither here nor on receiving it). Actually more than a week ago they do not answer any message in the forum, nor have they spoken on the issue of whether you can have more than one user account, raised in another thread of the forum.
continue in the following message ..
Thank you very much, I have invested a lot of time in this, this is the second message (*) that I write in the forum about this topic, because:
- It is true that it is an IMPORTANT problem, because of the consequences that it can have to ignore it (with administrative, economic and even criminal sanctions).
- It is WORRIED, by the magnitude and tendency to get worse that it has. For example, the user that I mentioned yesterday already has another 9 new models. The passivity of those affected is also worrisome.
- It is SERIOUS, because it threatens the future of all of us. Because, if the same models are available for free, why buy them? Honestly take account and see how much time comes out of your work / life. Have you ever considered, the possibility of living from this, or is it just a hobby?
- IT IS HARMFUL, for designers, because it distorts the market and they have to underestimate their models in order to compete. For buyers, in which it can generate distrust and drive away quality buyers. And for the good image of CGT (**)
-For all the above, it is also URGENT, since it would be advisable to remedy it as soon as possible. As I said once, CGT is like our house, keep it clean, and let everyone shine
(**)I do not like the attitude of CGT to this issue and I think it completely tarnishes the good work done in other aspects. Trust and good name is something that takes a lot of effort to build, but can collapse in a minute and then it is very difficult recover. The problems do not disappear ignoring them. A passive attitude to this problem is very negative, and may suggest lack of interest, respect, even consent and complicity. Being the leader, being the least bad, is not a good business strategy because at any moment another one may appear, a little better.
(*) first message
https://www.cgtrader.com/forum/general-discussions/something-must-be-done-already
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