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  • give your models to AI training

    • give your models to AI training

    Discussion started by Mantas-Talmantas
    Back to board

    So as many of you, i suppose, i got an email from cgtrader saying:

    " in response to the evolving AI industry, we want to help our designers make the most out of the emerging opportunities within the AI space. We are seeing a growing interest in your 3D models, and we want to bring these opportunities to you.
    We are seeing multiple parties willing to purchase your models for Generative AI. To make the process seamless, we are automatically changing our default license into being AI-friendly so that the interested parties can start purchasing your models. This license will permit using the models for AI training and unlock new business models and future monetization opportunities that make the most of the changing AI landscape. "

    So what do you think? as a first thought after reading this email, i see it this way - they buy your models (once i suppose or couple of times if not one "party" is interested .. ) and then you are a toast. in a sense that similar models will be generated by these "parties" and you are no longer needed. On the other hand - my assumption is, one by one people will agree, and then you are still left in a same position. so its a .. "last sale" ??
    any thoughts?

    8
    Posted 5 months ago
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    Answers

    Posted 5 months ago
    5

    Based on their current "Dream AI" thing or whatever it is, its a one time payment for unlimited use. So yeah, times are changing.

    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    The goal of this change is that we see multiple enterprise customers interesting in acquiring large numbers of 3D models. Being a marketplace with high royalty rates, we'd like to pass this to designers if they choose to. In order to make sure everyone has time to opt out, we are not doing any of these deals for the coming two weeks so that there is time to think about it and process it
    ebalstudios wrote
    ebalstudios
    I think CGTrader just wants to cash in some big profits by selling out all of their publishers before selling completely.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @ebalstudios @3DCargo - please note that 3D models you see on CGDream are not used for AI training and every paid model seller agreed to have models on CGDream with a separate written agreement. The GenAI terms change is about selling the assets to companies who want to use them for Generative AI and not related to 3D models you see on CGDream
    Posted 5 months ago
    4

    What do you mean one by one people will agree? Cgtrader just snapped their finger and everyone agreed automatically. If you disagree, then it's your business to go and change license on all your models... one by one. That's how we roll here.

    Mantas-Talmantas wrote
    Mantas-Talmantas
    yes, you would have some fun changing license one by one on your models :) they say you can write them for bulk change. and what i mean by "people will agree one by one.. " its like there is a feeling (for me at least) of hopelessness, like unwinnable battle, so you might join to get a last sale, cos no point on "fighting"
    3DCargo wrote
    3DCargo
    You can certainly join @Mantas-Talmantas, and so can anyone else. In fact if you were to project the next 5 years you would probably say well, considering what AI can do now, and what it will do then its probably an entirely different landscape of how we download and request AI to build 3D models. I still dont think its very nice to change people's license type automatically though! Its also a game-plan changer, so those who adapt will win those who dont... wont I suppose. Theres lots of variables to consider which we all have to pay attention to as this evolves. Nothing is a sure plan until the proof is in the pudding. But one thing is for sure, you should never let people take away your rights just because 'its the standard'. Thats how we end up in an orwellian situation. Be smart, but dont be foolish about it (or hopeless in your words), its your choice.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @LemonadeCG @3DCargo please note that our Royalty Free license was set several years ago (before Gen AI trend started) and did not address or prohibit using paid models for AI training, making it a matter of interpretation. With this change we are making the possibility to opt out as well as making it clear that Royalty Free license allows for AI training. Apologies for the complex process - the bulk opt out button is coming soon, and we are processing opt out requests via support very rapidly on a daily basis
    LemonadeCG wrote
    LemonadeCG
    @dalia-lasaite, fair enough, no one could predicted this rapid AI evolution and emerging new use cases when original royalty license was written, but don't you think that training generative AI is such a radically new usage case, that it's at very least is unethical to make everyone opt-in without their explicit consent. But of course, you are fully aware, that whatever changes you'd bring to license and site's terms and policy, 95% of your users won't move a finger to react to that, so making everyone opt-out by default would not sit well with your corporate clients interests. You'd rather deal with handful of unhappy designers on the forum, than to have only fraction of your models available for AI training.
    LemonadeCG wrote
    LemonadeCG
    By the way, do you think your business will be still needed once AI will reach the level when it will be capable to produce arbitrary complex 3D models of excellent quality by a rate of thousands per minute? Or is it just last attempt to grab anything that you can before stock models markets will vanish out of existence?
    mak21 wrote
    mak21
    damn.. one by one??? and let's never end... I didn't receive any emails.... this is a game similar to the guys at turbosquid... but at least you only set them once for all the models...
    jaguarbeastproduction wrote
    jaguarbeastproduction
    @LemonadeCG For example, I am an artist and my budget doesn't allow me to hire professionals to create high-quality content. What's wrong with AI being able to replace or speed up the operations of texturing, retopology, rigging, etc. At the same time, highly qualified specialists will not disappear from their studios and will work on their high-budget projects. Or what’s bad is that with the help of the same AI, beginners will be able to at least create a high-quality background for presentation of their models. As for thousands per minute, this is very unlikely since the number of restrictions for AI will obviously only increase.
    Posted 5 months ago
    2

    Maybe we would need something like an extended license, which would cost more!

    3DCargo wrote
    3DCargo
    You can just change your license to either Editorial No AI, or Royalty Free no AI. But still changing it by default is a d**k move. You can also request support to do a bulk change for you, however I personally think that should also be available for you to do yourself. However I do think that if things continue to move this way a fee increase is certainly considerable.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @salexniks2 a few other sellers suggested this, we'll think about adding this option in the future!
    Posted 5 months ago
    9

    I have deleted all my models from the website and will stop using it. This is basically asking the lamb to buy the tools for the butcher. As soon as you agree to this all the work you did will be used against you. It’s not inevitable, the ai trainers need a ton of data in order to make these models. The more people refuse to engage, the harder it will be for them to replace you. I recommend more people follow, or don’t, it’s your funeral.

    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    Hi PolyArtStudios, we are very sorry to hear that. We have seen deals in the market that offer pretty poor payoff for designers (we have not done any of those) and we want to make sure that designers are compensated well, where our high royalty rate is very helpful. However, we fully respect different opinions on the issue and we are not doing any deals for the next 2 weeks to make sure everyone who wants can opt out
    Mantas-Talmantas wrote
    Mantas-Talmantas
    @dalia-lasaite just a question. so do i understand correctly here - from cg trader's perspective, we (the sellers) are suppose to agree (or opt out) to a situation where we sell our models to AI training with a same price as for regular buyer? (sins there was nothing mentioned of a price in an email) ?
    PolyArtStudios wrote
    PolyArtStudios
    The way you approached it speaks louder than any words that accompanied the change. Making it both the default setting and forcing people to disable it for each individual model instead of being able to set it in bulk, tells me you are actively making it difficult for people to fight this. We get 99% of our sales from other marketplaces anyway, marketplaces where people have voiced their feelings on AI training on their content and (for now at least) both actively forbid using the content from them for AI training. So yea why would I continue selling on the only markeplace that wants to use my content to hurt my ability to continue providing for my family. It’s blatantly disrespectful. Anyway, I’m out. I suggest people look at alternatives, especially for game ready models, there are a lot out there that don’t want to take away your ability to make aliving.
    VityaB wrote
    VityaB
    Yeah and those other sites take a 50% cut from your sales (or even more!).
    PolyArtStudios wrote
    PolyArtStudios
    Not sure which ones, but the ones i use take 30% or less. This is for game ready models only though
    ebalstudios wrote
    ebalstudios
    I am with you brother. I also just deleted all of my models and regret having signed up to CGTrader. There are many better alternatives. The way CGTrader pushed this is shady to say the least. They obviously do not understand their publishers and can never be trusted.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @mantas-talmantas yes, that is correct - the price remains as set by you on the marketplace
    Posted 5 months ago
    3

    This Ai situation is definitely worrying... But we shall see how it evolves.... If we are lucky , a couple of years are still ahead and we can earn something with our models. I hope everybody understands that since anyone can make a great model with ai tools (while without his or her skills are close to zero) this market will disappear . Generative AI is already hitting our sales with its images. Many won't buy models anymore because of free AI tools already available that allow to generate almost any image you want.

    RealtimeModels wrote
    RealtimeModels
    "since anyone can make a great model with ai tools" Ah, really? Show me one! A great model generated by AI, please. Everything AI can generate is Hollywood BS. Total perfectionism without bumps, issues, problem zones, hence, everything clinical artificial. "Great" however is something else. If it´s about realism, you need dirt, bumps, organic looking assets. AI ain´t able to do that! I´ve never seen a realistic organic AI generated image. AI images have a AI mark on the forehead! they are just completely Hollywood, if not Bollywood.
    Posted 5 months ago
    5

    Hey, I changed all my models to "no AI" one by one, but I don't appreciate the automatic change of license. It should have been the inverse process.

    mykola1985 wrote
    mykola1985
    Yes me too. Automatically should be set on "no AI".
    3DCargo wrote
    3DCargo
    Agree, however I followed the instructions in the email and requested all my models be set to "no AI". They responded saying they will do so without me needing to do it myself. Ill check this in the next couple of days to see if its true.
    antony7 wrote
    a
    They always sneaked in the fishy rules into the default license agreement. Did you know they allowed reselling of your rendered 3d models on stock sites many years ago? Not a single 3d stock site in the world does that.
    Posted 5 months ago
    5

    I bet many of us here are already experiencing lower sales in the last 6 months. Some buyers Will simply generate images instead of spending money for models. Others won't. That is perfectly explaining hit on our sales.

    antony7 wrote
    a
    Didn't see the drop on other sites. Sketchfab is exploding in sales instead. It is CGtraders shady practices that kills the trust of both sellers and buyers.
    Posted 5 months ago
    6

    This site is in a self destruct mode. Instead of solving years old bugs, providing support or listening to sellers they went full AI.
    They either don't understand it or they don't count with us long term. Which would explain a lot of things that happened here this year.

    First they sent email about their own AI site with a note
    "Note: We believe that AI can be utilized in a way that empowers and benefits the artists, thus 3D models in CGDream are only used to guide the composition of the image and not for AI training, offering transparency and fairness to designers."

    and a week later voilà

    "We are seeing multiple parties willing to purchase your models for Generative AI. To make the process seamless, we are automatically changing our default license into being AI-friendly so that the interested parties can start purchasing your models."

    Not suspicious at all.
    Hey CGTrader can you name few of these parties please.

    IndieArt wrote
    IndieArt
    Nothing feels better like going thru your models one by one on a Friday night changing licenses and deleting generated tags because "There can't be more than 20 tags".
    mykola1985 wrote
    mykola1985
    "There can't be more than 20 tags" - very annoyng indeed
    dibiadigital wrote
    dibiadigital
    While I was going through the tedious process of manually assigning the "Royalty free no AI" licensing to my models and dealing with the "more than 20 tags" nonsense, about 3 or 4 of my models were assigned "Editorial No AI" licensing. How generous.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @IndieArt I agree that the timing might look related, but it is coincidental. The models you see on CGDream are either free (permitted by our terms as they are not used for AI training), or we have a written agreement with every seller of the paid models which are on CGDream. The generative AI terms change allows to sell your models to enterprises looking to purchase 3D models, and I cannot name them because of confidentiality, but we believe these are good terms for designers to sell them at marketplace prices, rather than selling them for very low prices as some deals in the market have done
    Thanos-CGTrader wrote
    Thanos-CGTrader
    @IndieArt please elaborate a bit on the tags issue. What kind of problem are you facing with tags?
    IndieArt wrote
    IndieArt
    @Thanos-CGTrader If you publish product you can insert only 20 tags. If you go to edit it later on, you will find there are usually much more tags generated, and you can't Update the product with the error "There can't be more than 20 tags". You have to delete the tags above 20 tags max to be able to update the product. This thing is old as the publisher.
    Thanos-CGTrader wrote
    Thanos-CGTrader
    @IndieArt thanks! we'll review and fix that
    antony7 wrote
    a
    Believe me there are more issues than AI that require you to put a custom license. You just don't know them all :) This AI one just got more publicity.
    Posted 5 months ago
    4

    Aaand someone reported this thread, so it's hidden..

    Posted 5 months ago
    6

    Ya, I think they are counting on many people not noticing their E-mail and then CGTrader getting a quick one time profit from other companies they are colluding/partnering with. All they need is to have "permission" for one minute.

    I just deleted all of my 3D models. I even deleted my gallery images and tutorials from here. Maybe they will also sell them off without my permission.

    Posted 5 months ago
    5

    Special thanks to Cgtrader ,first they changed payout methods to only Hyperwallet which is financial damage to me and there is no way i will ever use it ,second this AI shit(whole night i spent my time to switch them all(around 300 models) into NO AI) , iam wondering what surprises wait for us in upcoming days

    3DCargo wrote
    3DCargo
    Yeah I emailed them yesterday, still waiting for them to bulk-change all mine... which still hasnt happened. Also I switched off discounts awhile ago and its still applied. Whats going on?!
    tobiasrieper wrote
    t
    How often do you see that CEO of the company himself responds on the forum ? This to me just shows how sensitive this all "thing" is and that CGT is quietly transforming into something new.
    3DCargo wrote
    3DCargo
    Just an update on this if anyone is interested, glad to report that after requesting a bulk-change to my license terms all my model licences have been updated with 'No AI". Phew, glad I didnt have to do that myself.
    dalia-lasaite wrote
    d
    @tobiasrieper believe it or not I still read the forum regularly and used to post here much more back in the day:) however, I think it is an important question - how can we maximize the opportunities for designers in the AI age? The changes we have been introducing are trying to address that and bring these opportunities to you
    3DAutomotiveStuFF wrote
    3DAutomotiveStuFF
    @dalia-lasaite AI is not the only problem for some artists like me , without letting us or giving us time u changed payout method only to Hyperwallet , it is financial damage for me and there is no way i will ever use it , i mailed about it to support team and got no response
    Thanos-CGTrader wrote
    Thanos-CGTrader
    @3DAutomotiveStuFF why is Hyperwallet so bad for you? Please let us know what the issue is.
    3DAutomotiveStuFF wrote
    3DAutomotiveStuFF
    @Thanos-CGTrader now with this updated payout method i must pay over 20% of my earnings as income tax which nowdays is disaster if u consider decrease of sells and ongoing rising inflation rates in marketplace ,have u guys ever thought that these changes in payout methods (or in AI)can lead some problems like leaving this platform
    Thanos-CGTrader wrote
    Thanos-CGTrader
    @3DAutomotiveStuFF How can the payout method affect the taxes that you pay?
    3DAutomotiveStuFF wrote
    3DAutomotiveStuFF
    @Thanos-CGTrader yesterday i already got message from support team ,u guys will not make payoneer payout method optional for some artists, no need to keep this conversation going on
    Posted 5 months ago
    4

    Hey vendors, I got still my payments via Paypal last time, did I missed something in regards to this "updated payout method"?

    In regards to this AI discussion, I rejected to join it till now, but I see I shall because it could have a small impact.

    Yes, the issue with AI is that if in wrong hands it can bring airplanes to crash, manipulate our smartphones, produce politically dangerous deep fakes that can cause unrests in targeted countries by manipulating brains of unstable people. Therefore AI is of course dangerous, but we shall not feed it.

    Things generated by AI have a visible AI mark on the forehead. Of course also 3d models. AI tries to imitate things with alluring perfection. Buyers however need real world context and not this AI fabricated Hollywood BS. It will need much more than Gemini 1.0 or ChatGPT to replace us.

    Maybe it´s time to start ignoring the hyper-hysteria about AI, because that´s what "they" want.
    They want you to be scared.
    Just ignore any lures and temptations to fall into panic and don´t join the AI movement at all.
    You can still sell stuff here on CGT with NoAI tags.
    I myself just let this AI generated stuff for the NFT Art scammers.
    I make my NoAI tag in every model and write the text "NoAI: This model may not be used in datasets for, in the development of, or as inputs to generative AI programs.". All I can do, and I still sell something till today with it.

    Regards
    RM

    VityaB wrote
    VityaB
    I have not recieved such e-mail either. I've read they are doing it in batches. So our time will come too
    RealtimeModels wrote
    RealtimeModels
    Me myself received an email with regards to "Expanding your earnings with our AI-friendly licensing option". There is not one word about the payout method.
    Posted 5 months ago
    1

    cg trader letter
    in response to the evolving AI industry, we want to help our designers make the most out of the emerging opportunities within the AI space. We are seeing a growing interest in your 3D models, and we want to bring these opportunities to you.
    We are seeing multiple parties willing to purchase your models for Generative AI. To make the process seamless, we are automatically changing our default license into being AI-friendly so that the interested parties can start purchasing your models. This license will permit using the models for AI training and unlock new business models and future monetization opportunities that make the most of the changing AI landscape. "

    cg trader letter ( if companies told the truth)
    " in response to the evolving AI industry, cg trader is no longer able to predict the future space. We are seeing a growing interest in change in market place models, how our business model adapt within n changing landscape
    We are seeing multiple opportunities tow work with companies in withinr Generative AI. To make us relevant we are automatically changing our default license into being AI-friendly so that the interested parties can start purchasing your models. This license will permit using the models for AI training and unlock new business models and future monetization opportunities that make the most of the changing AI landscape. "

    Posted 5 months ago
    -2

    hey the animators will be next ... movie industry ---- already aiinstagram.........( we just cant predict) ------- hey mid jouney is not fun to use .. its easy as ordring a burger in macdonalds ( i think every one is in favour of the 3d artist and digital artist in this forum )

    we all have one thing were humans not ai we will all adapt

    Posted 5 months ago
    -1

    I saw that now you can set the license types in the control panel ( ai or not ai )... it's the best and fastest choice.. this is good news

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