Single body mesh or overlapped bodies?

Discussion started by emerson-rosa

Hey guys, I have a question about print-ready models' setup (as I don't have a printer - yet - I can't test it myself):


Does the model NEEDS to be in a single mesh? Example: http://puu.sh/a3xjP/ff7097172e.png

Or it can be made from multiple body meshes attached in the same model? Example: http://puu.sh/a3xhD/1127d382ff.png


I always try to keep print-ready models in a single mesh, but is it really necessary? Or does the "printer" recognizes all meshes overlapped and print it altogether?


Thanks in advance!

Answers

Posted almost 10 years ago
1

It depends on your Printer+Software. Some can handle intersecting meshes and some can´t.

emerson-rosa wrote
emerson-rosa
So, if I want to use it commercially, the best option is always the Single Mesh one. Thanks, Manuel! :)
manuelpoehlau wrote
manuelpoehlau
I think that´s the way to go
Platonik wrote
Platonik
This was the first question I had when I got my up plus 2 and I did some tests to figure it out. Single meshes are most reliable. if you model has thickness it's technically 2 meshes combined with opposite facing normals. The dicer uses the opposite facing normals to create the instructions to lay out the filament. It does not have to be one mesh but it cannot have overlapping in the mesh. Technically everything in the .stl gets grouped under one shape / mesh node. Say you had two intersecting spheres: you would need to perform a boolean operation to remove the faces from the inside where the spheres intersect. The problem with having faces overlapping is the printer will try to print those faces and by doing so it will melt holes and seams into the area because its trying to make something inside of something else. And its better to break multi-part models into seperate .stl files so people can print them separately if they want. Here are some other guild-lines I follow. If you've seen a 3d printer in action and can think about how surfaces are made, that helps. All surfaces must be a minimum of 1 mm thick in order to work on most home printers (unless you are doing a single surface shell print). Details can be smaller than 1 mm but the actual surface thickness must be 1 mm. 2-3 mm works great for functional objects like vases that you actually want to hold water. A single layer shell print will not hold water unless you treat it in various ways. If you can, avoid creating overhangs that reach out from the main surface at hard angles near 90 degrees as this will require support material and the quality of the model in that section will be rougher. I test every model that I make and sometimes have to go through 4-5 revisions before I can confirm that the design will work. Anyone without a 3d printer making designs for sale should consider the complexities encountered when someone buys your file and it fails. Not only does it waste their material but then they want to return their model. My fortune cookie model works great on my printer but my first buyer of it wanted to return it because they said the two halves didn't click together. I sent them 2 alternative files and they still left a bad review. And this is a file that I made 7 revisions on before publishin. I am going to predict that the return rate on 3d print models is going to be near that of womans clothing. 3d Printing for the masses is a design challenge for sure. Anyone thinking that you can just load up a model and click print is wrong. Sure . . .some printers can deal with anything, but most home printers cannot. What is the optimal layer-height? What kind of infill is recommended. Are there any special instructions like 'do not print it from this angle'. Does it require support material to print successfully? How long will it take and how much material will it use. Some materials like ABS have a tendency to warp if there are large flat sections touching the print bed. Nylon like taulman 618 is much more forgiving, but not everyone is going to have the desire or capabilities to print in nylon. These are all questions that a potential buyer may have. Most models that I 3d print takes between 4-8 hours to print on medium quality and use about 1/15 of my filament reel. That is an investment that I would rather make then have my buyer get mad for wasting their time and money. At $30-40 per reel you want the design to work, but it never comes out quite how you imagined the first time and then its time to revise. I'm not trying to troll but just to establish the realities involved, that 3d printing any given model is still an engineering challenge that should be worked through by the designer of the model. Hope this helps anyone with these questions!~
Posted almost 10 years ago
1

This was the first question I had when I got my up plus 2 and I did some tests to figure it out.

Single meshes are most reliable. if you model has thickness it's technically 2 meshes combined with opposite facing normals. The dicer uses the opposite facing normals to create the instructions to lay out the filament.

It does not have to be one mesh but it cannot have overlapping in the mesh. Technically everything in the .stl gets grouped under one shape / mesh node.

Say you had two intersecting spheres: you would need to perform a boolean operation to remove the faces from the inside where the spheres intersect. The problem with having faces overlapping is the printer will try to print those faces and by doing so it will melt holes and seams into the area because its trying to make something inside of something else.

And its better to break multi-part models into seperate .stl files so people can print them separately if they want.

Here are some other guild-lines I follow.

If you've seen a 3d printer in action and can think about how surfaces are made, that helps. All surfaces must be a minimum of 1 mm thick in order to work on most home printers (unless you are doing a single surface shell print). Details can be smaller than 1 mm but the actual surface thickness must be 1 mm. 2-3 mm works great for functional objects like vases that you actually want to hold water. A single layer shell print will not hold water unless you treat it in various ways.

If you can, avoid creating overhangs that reach out from the main surface at hard angles near 90 degrees as this will require support material and the quality of the model in that section will be rougher.

I test every model that I make and sometimes have to go through 4-5 revisions before I can confirm that the design will work. Anyone without a 3d printer making designs for sale should consider the complexities encountered when someone buys your file and it fails. Not only does it waste their material but then they want to return their model. My fortune cookie model works great on my printer but my first buyer of it wanted to return it because they said the two halves didn't click together. I sent them 2 alternative files and they still left a bad review. And this is a file that I made 7 revisions on before publishin. I am going to predict that the return rate on 3d print models is going to be near that of womans clothing.

3d Printing for the masses is a design challenge for sure.

Anyone thinking that you can just load up a model and click print is wrong. Sure . . .some printers can deal with anything, but most home printers cannot. What is the optimal layer-height? What kind of infill is recommended. Are there any special instructions like 'do not print it from this angle'. Does it require support material to print successfully? How long will it take and how much material will it use. Some materials like ABS have a tendency to warp if there are large flat sections touching the print bed. Nylon like taulman 618 is much more forgiving, but not everyone is going to have the desire or capabilities to print in nylon.

These are all questions that a potential buyer may have.

Most models that I 3d print takes between 4-8 hours to print on medium quality and use about 1/15 of my filament reel. That is an investment that I would rather make then have my buyer get mad for wasting their time and money. At $30-40 per reel you want the design to work, but it never comes out quite how you imagined the first time and then its time to revise.

I'm not trying to troll but just to establish the realities involved, that 3d printing any given model is still an engineering challenge that should be worked through by the designer of the model. Hope this helps anyone with these questions!~

emerson-rosa wrote
emerson-rosa
A lot of useful informations! I'm still kind of new in the "3D print thing", and, as I said, I don't have a printer yet to test the models... The only thing I can do right now, is to use the "STL Check" modifier, from 3DSMax, to check if there is any error on the mesh, but yes, I know that it's a lot more complex than it seems! I'll probably buy one on the next months, to improve the meshes, and for sure I'll keep all of these informations in mind for the next models! (Like the thickness... it was something that I really wanted to know, but it's a relativelly vague thing to look for on the internet, considering all the printers avaiable nowadays)! Thanks, man!
Platonik wrote
Platonik
BTW, getting a 3d printer is probably one of the best decisions i made in the last few years. Not kidding. It has changed the way I think and opened a lot of possibilities. Sure there was a moment when I wanted to pull my hair out because I damaged my first nozzle (by trying to clean it with a pair of pliers and a blow torch) but after I learned all the important lessons (like use acetone and a guitar string to clean out the nozzle) I am quite happy with it. Good luck !
Posted almost 10 years ago
0

so what about a characters?if they do have many little accessories,like bags,knives on their hands or whatever?

emerson-rosa wrote
emerson-rosa
Characters, like, common CG model? I don't know if I understood you question right, but we are talking about 3D Printable models! Either way, if you are actually talking about 3D printable CHARACTERS, I think that they should be in a single mesh too, to avoid some further issues (as Noah and Manuel pointed out). :P
Platonik wrote
Platonik
Yes I agree. In Maya I would simply select say the weapon or bag in question and boolean union it to the main character mesh. This would keep it as one mesh and would remove any overlapping issues. The other thing to consider would be to actually make the accessories as separate models and attach them after 3d printing, like doll accessories. This is the most fun way because then you can customize the model later.
Posted about 9 years ago
0

to combine thing into one 'single' mesh
you will have to retopology it
then projecting the detail of new 'single' mesh that you just re-created

or the easyway is 'remesh' ing (using meshlab)
but the result is not accurate .

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